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Flop nut flush

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02-02-2021 , 01:58 PM

esspoker

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,630

1/2 eff stacks 400. Villain on button is decent but splashy, plays too many hands, can make fishy bluffs and ego plays from time to time, but can also play solid other times.

hero in HJ A4dd raises to 10 gets CO, button and BB callers

41

flop Kd Jd 3d

button, hero, co check, button bets 25

h calls rest fold

91

Turn 5c

hero x button bets 50 hero xraises to 150

thoughts on line/sizing to get in stacks?

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02-02-2021 , 02:08 PM

sixsevenoff

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 5,411

Probably go $15 pre, but it depends on the game

We definitely want to fast play this hand, checking is a pretty big mistake. As played, x-r, don't x-c, we want to play for stacks.

Turn seems fine, but I might just jam at this SPR. Idk for sure because I'm never in this spot.

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02-02-2021 , 02:22 PM

sdfsgf

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 667

Definitely betting the flop, and as played check/raise. I really like to fast-play the nut flush when I flop it, since people won't believe you and you can build a big pot before losing action on e.g. diamond turns. The check/call flop, check/raise turn line looks so nutty that (depending on my view of the person doing it) if I were BU I'd start folding a good chunk of my flushes.

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02-02-2021 , 02:26 PM

kimoser22

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 3,822

Quote:

Originally Posted by esspoker

Pre is whatever I open smaller but if no one is going to punish you by 3-betting than it’s fine...I like the c/c multi-way, against said player I don’t mind your smallish raise but also might think about c/c and going for a c/r on the river, would he bet/call KQ with Qd (as an ego play-hero must have Ad...)...

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02-02-2021 , 03:25 PM

sixsevenoff

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 5,411

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimoser22

Everything about this post says you're an online player

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02-02-2021 , 04:24 PM

jdr0317

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

Really bad. What’s your range to check call flop and check raise turn? Looks pretty nutted and I doubt you’re balancing it well.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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02-02-2021 , 04:25 PM

tdammon

adept

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 707

As others have said, it's not a great hand to slow play. Sure we have the nuts but that board is likely to have hit someone. I usually bet large on monotone flops like these but with the nuts I think I would size down to half pot. Depending on your opponents you'll get called by Kx, Jx, straight draws, maybe some hands with a Qd. The smaller bet might also induce a raise.

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02-02-2021 , 04:38 PM

Nippleman

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 660

When you check flop as initial raiser, and then x/r turn, you might as well turn your hand over at this stage. You get a flop that will hit the calling range decently well, and most people are expecting a cbet. You are also putting yourself in a tough spot if V checks back turn, and the 4th diamond, or the board pairs on the river.

AP, I would shove turn, as it you can look like an AdX hand as well as flush hands. Raising like you did just screams flush. I don't think I would even call with AK here, as V.

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02-03-2021 , 12:36 AM

esspoker

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,630

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdammon

To play devil's advocate here we keep in a lot of bluffs on this extremely bluffy board (or at least semi-bluffy). I think with our hand we block some hands that like to call 2 or 3 bets here, so trapping seems like a decent line.

If we bet out, call, bet turn, call, what are we repping? because that seems nutty to me also on this board (or at least KQd)

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02-03-2021 , 12:38 AM

#10

javi

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 8,233

just pot pot shove. On a board like this there's nothing that calls $25 but folds $40 on the flop. All the draws will chase, and all the 2pair/sets cant lay down.

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02-03-2021 , 12:38 AM

#11

esspoker

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,630

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdr0317

Really bad. What’s your range to check call flop and check raise turn? Looks pretty nutted and I doubt you’re balancing it well.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

true against good thinking opps... agreed I would never call this line from me

but this game has some weaker fish, to be honest. all callers in this hand are probably losers, maybe 1 year playing max. I see many ego plays here (never giving up when with marginal holdings or combo draws)

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02-03-2021 , 12:40 AM

#12

esspoker

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,630

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimoser22

thought about it but just felt i needed to put in a value raise if river turned out to be non diamond and he missed his Qd flush, (hoping for a triple barrel is not wp imo)

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02-03-2021 , 04:48 AM

#13

Dream Crusher

banned

Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 18,786

I know whales that can fold flushes to this line. Just bet bet bet and if they have a big hand there is a good possibility they will raise drawing thin/dead.

In general slow playing is terrible and good players rarely do it. You are slow playing vs terrible opponents who could peal super weak and could also slow play big hands themselves. If you flopped the nut flush and someone else flopped the flush or a set or two pair and it goes check check check check that's an absolute disaster.

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02-03-2021 , 06:07 AM

#14

Viral25

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,857

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dream Crusher

I know whales that can fold flushes to this line. Just bet bet bet and if they have a big hand there is a good possibility they will raise drawing thin/dead.

If this is true, start x/r bluffing turns like a madman.

Quote:

In general slow playing is terrible and good players rarely do it. You are slow playing vs terrible opponents who could peal super weak and could also slow play big hands themselves. If you flopped the nut flush and someone else flopped the flush or a set or two pair and it goes check check check check that's an absolute disaster.

+1000.

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02-03-2021 , 08:05 AM

#15

esspoker

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,630

So ran the hand in solver and got:

Hero bets quarter pot on flop or checking as optimal

AP hero should raise quarter pot (minraise) 75% and call 25% of the time.

However for some reason raising one pot has a higher EV though it says it's suboptimal (is this a glitch in snowie)

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02-03-2021 , 01:39 PM

#16

Nippleman

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 660

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viral25

If this is true, start x/r bluffing turns like a madman.

+1000.

I mean, it was probably a touch of rhetoric. But I would hesitant to call most of my baby flushes on this line, depending on the player. H is screaming strength.

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02-03-2021 , 02:36 PM

#17

Dream Crusher

banned

Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 18,786

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viral25

If this is true, start x/r bluffing turns like a madman.

Already do.

And no, it wasn't rhetoric. I literally saw a whale fold a flush to this same line a few weeks ago. Guy dumps thousands in most of his 2/5 sessions but dude got him to fold a small flush by playing his hand face up just like this.

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02-03-2021 , 03:09 PM

#18

sixsevenoff

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 5,411

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dream Crusher

Lol you're definitely referencing my hand. Ftr I didn't flop the flush, and he had a set.

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02-03-2021 , 04:30 PM

#19

Nippleman

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 660

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixsevenoff

Lol you're definitely referencing my hand. Ftr I didn't flop the flush, and he had a set.

Oh snapples.

Still, monotone or not, you don't strike me as the guy to lightly fold sets.

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02-03-2021 , 04:58 PM

#20

sixsevenoff

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 5,411

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nippleman

Oh snapples.

Still, monotone or not, you don't strike me as the guy to lightly fold sets.

I didn't fold a set, the other guy did. I don't usually lightly fold sets, but it's situation dependent.

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02-03-2021 , 05:04 PM

#21

Dream Crusher

banned

Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 18,786

Oh snap, I do now recall the hand where a player folded a set to 67o's aggression, but I was actually referring to another player that folded a small flush because the turn check raise is so obviously a flush.

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02-03-2021 , 05:09 PM

#22

WereBeer

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10,700

I'm cbetting this hand. AP I guess raise turn because you are OOP and lack options.

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02-03-2021 , 06:34 PM

#23

javi

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 8,233

Quote:

Originally Posted by esspoker

So ran the hand in solver and got:

Hero bets quarter pot on flop or checking as optimal

Can you run the solver as villain with a series of potential holdings to see how it reacts to hero's perceived range?

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02-03-2021 , 07:45 PM

#24

esspoker

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,630

Quote:

Originally Posted by javi

Can you run the solver as villain with a series of potential holdings to see how it reacts to hero's perceived range?

lol no, but it basically already does that

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