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Flop Decision Flop Decision

07-02-2018 , 09:56 AM
Game is $1/$2 $300 max NL. New game, second hand on the table so no reads. V in the hand is a MAWG, a regular at this card room, but Hero has not played with him to date. V is OTB and has $292, Hero covers.

3 limps to Hero in the LJ; Hero raises to $17 with AJ. Folded to V OTB who calls, Blinds fold and one limper calls. 3 way to the flop.

Flop ($51 after max rake and High Hand $2 drop)

AJ7

Checked to Hero who bets $40. V quickly raises to $100 with $175 behind. Limper folds, back to Hero. Pot is $193.

Q is do we just flat here or shove? Stacks are sort of shallow given board texture and pot size, but given no reads Hero isn't certain of optimal play versus a MAWG with zero reads. Thoughts?
Flop Decision Quote
07-02-2018 , 10:09 AM
Seems like a pretty standard shove. I might flat IP but if you're checking most turns to induce you're giving V a free shot at his draws if he has them (and calling off vs all his sets) and if you're shoving most turns why not shove now?
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07-02-2018 , 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomdemaine
Seems like a pretty standard shove. I might flat IP but if you're checking most turns to induce you're giving V a free shot at his draws if he has them (and calling off vs all his sets) and if you're shoving most turns why not shove now?
+1
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07-02-2018 , 10:16 AM
Just rip it in. He is probably not folding Ax but might ott if its scarry. The fact that the A is not a spade is fantastic as he has all Axss. If stacks were deeper I would consider a flat but ABC is probably best here.
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07-02-2018 , 10:18 AM
My first thought is shove, he shouldn’t fold when he is getting a price of 175 to win 368.

I would be worried about a spade on the turn killing our action if he has AK or AQ non spades.

Although I would expect him to have a lot of combo draws, and we are a decent favorite against those hands.
Flop Decision Quote
07-02-2018 , 10:33 AM
Yup, being oop I'd just gii. Ace spades in play, so he's not folding AsXs, nor A7, maybe even J7s. Bad luck if 77, but have outs.
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07-02-2018 , 11:13 AM
Shovalowsky

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07-02-2018 , 11:18 AM
OK cool. I went with consensus and shoved. He snapped with AKo and MHIG.

Thanks to all for confirming. Hero has been in a bit of a bad streak and that is causing me to question some pretty standard spots.

Shorn
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07-02-2018 , 11:44 AM
Good to hear your hands can hold up from time to time! NH, keep grinding.
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07-02-2018 , 01:46 PM
In position I call. I still contemplate a call OOP but we still arent deep enough here. Sometimes MAWG reg are capable of folding TPTK or bottom 2P / top and bottom 2p type hands to a 3bet shove OTF, which is a disaster. It's just so strong to reraise
Flop Decision Quote
07-02-2018 , 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishsoup
In position I call. I still contemplate a call OOP but we still arent deep enough here. Sometimes MAWG reg are capable of folding TPTK or bottom 2P / top and bottom 2p type hands to a 3bet shove OTF, which is a disaster. It's just so strong to reraise
Yeah bolded was where I was concerned and if flop were rainbow I would have just flatted. I just didn't know this V and decided that since my Jam was less than PSB, it made the most sense even if he folded. But you hit the nail on the head as to my concern...that he would fold a hand like AK/AQ. Fortunately he donked off the rest.
Flop Decision Quote
07-02-2018 , 02:50 PM
Also, IME anytime there is a flush draw on board (and especially with the off suit Ace) there is a better chance your V can put you on a flush draw or pair + draw and call larger bet sizings. Do others factor this into sizing decisions?
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07-02-2018 , 04:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by c0rnBr34d
Also, IME anytime there is a flush draw on board (and especially with the off suit Ace) there is a better chance your V can put you on a flush draw or pair + draw and call larger bet sizings. Do others factor this into sizing decisions?
If I was the PFR, I am not sure this matters. But if I am a field bettor with a strong hand on a board like this, then most definitely I will size up with that in mind, especially when HU.
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07-02-2018 , 04:24 PM
Pretty much what everyone has said but just rip the flop OOP. It's not the most amazing spot but we don't really have much other choice.
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07-02-2018 , 10:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorn7
Yeah bolded was where I was concerned and if flop were rainbow I would have just flatted. I just didn't know this V and decided that since my Jam was less than PSB, it made the most sense even if he folded. But you hit the nail on the head as to my concern...that he would fold a hand like AK/AQ. Fortunately he donked off the rest.
It is disaster that some other regs will be folding their AK/AQ/AT hands here when we shove (though not the one in our hand thankfully), but as said in this thread (1) stack sizes are less than PSB if we shove, and more importantly (2) even though shoving is less EV than flatting, the risk of giving him free equity on the turn is not worth the trade off - or scare cards that kill our action.

Always just goes to show how important position is

Nh shorn, always important to question even the spots where our hand is obviously good but need to maximize our choices.
Flop Decision Quote
07-03-2018 , 09:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishsoup
It is disaster that some other regs will be folding their AK/AQ/AT hands here when we shove (though not the one in our hand thankfully), but as said in this thread (1) stack sizes are less than PSB if we shove, and more importantly (2) even though shoving is less EV than flatting, the risk of giving him free equity on the turn is not worth the trade off - or scare cards that kill our action.

Always just goes to show how important position is

Nh shorn, always important to question even the spots where our hand is obviously good but need to maximize our choices.
Thx. And you guys are always good at either reinforcing or disagreeing or most importantly widening my thought process about pretty much every spot. We are all here to maximize and become crushers so I welcome contradictory opinions as that is the only way to get better.
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