Foxwoods 1/2.

I am a little over 200bb deep. Button is very deep.

Looser game with some wild stuff happening occasionally. Button makes a lot of raises from late position and C-bets almost 100%, that is pretty much my only read on him. UTG+2 is a maniac calling/raising seemingly ATC. I am in BB with the A7.

A few limps, button raises to 10. SB calls, I call, a few other callers.

Flop is A7J. I check, UTG+2 donks 20. Button flats. I raise to 50. UTG+2 folds. Button thinks for a minute and calls. Turn is J. I lead out 75. Again, button tank calls. River is a blank. I check, he checks, I


I'm somewhat convinced that this guy is never laying down top pair no matter what I do and I know I just got unlucky. I guess my question has to do with whether I should lead out flop or check raise bigger (how big) and whether I should consider giving up or shoving turn. I think I am okay with river check. I don't remember any live 1/2 game spot where I shoved river in similar situation where I didn't get called and lose. But I am posting with an open mind.

check raise to 70-80

I'd lead for 2/3 pot OTF. Once BTN calls I'd slow down. He is not calling with a J except AJ, so you are likely up against a stronger Ace. Try and get to the river cheaply, C/F turn and or river.

i would just bet flop, bet turn, and c/f river.

Curious as to your reasoning behind betting the turn.

Wouldn't a bet only represent AJ or AK, the latter likely 3-betting pre? I think the OP play eliminates a weaker Ace with the flop raise.

I know you were asking this question to other commenter but MY reasoning for firing the turn was that the cr on the flop was a pretty strong play representing something big. Obviously, my holding, A7 was within the range of what I could have been representing on the flop. I also think that 77 is within the range of what I was representing on the flop with the CR and that is something that I wouldn't necessarily 3-bet OOP. Also, I think I represent J10, KJ, and similar jack holdings.

I honestly don't think this guy was really thinking all that much about ranges though, unfortunately. I'm pretty sure he raised pf with AQ and he flopped top pair and got married to it. Well done on his part lol.

Also, cf the turn after cr the flop is really weak, imo. I think by giving up on the turn like that I am really starting to play face up indicating I either was bluffing the flop or got counterfeited. No?

I think that the biggest problem was my cr sizing on the flop. popping to $50 was really bad. Unfortunately I was distracted by the overly friendly drunk idiot next to me during the hand and I just f-ed up. Still ok with firing that turn but $70 for the CR seems better on the flop.

Assuming I cr to $70, how big do I fire turn when this ****ty card comes?

Ok, if you are going to check/raise, more ummmph behind your raises please, 70-80


I'm firing about 140 on the turn if you choose my line, if called, I'm check/folding.[

I do it fast as well

Right on. Like I said in a previous comment, I just seriously got distracted by the idiot next to me and didn't even realize the UTG+2 donked. But yes, I think the turn sizing sounds good under your line.

Oh yeah, another question, is there any argument for just shoving as my CR? I think I would think about that line in a tournament but it just seems excessive in cash game. Thoughts?

I don't like your turn bet. Ask yourself: why am I betting the turn?

For value? I'm not really seeing the value in this spot; we are never getting 3 streets of value from a worse hand. If he has a pocket pair or a worse A, we can just check behind for a cheap showdown-- possibly bet the river if he seems weak.

This is literally the worst card in the deck. If he looked us up with Jx, we are now terribly behind. If he has Ax, he is still more than likely to be ahead (more combinations of Ax hands that beat us than lose to us).

This is an easy check down imo. He's rarely floating you w/ complete air, so he'll probably just check behind for showdown value with whatever pair he has. If he bombs the river, it's probably a fold.

Oh, and as other posters have mentioned, c/r to at least $60+

Thanks for the response. I don't think I agree with what you are getting at though. Do we only bet for value? And I ask that as someone who does not like bluffing in a lot of spots.

BUT, like I said to a previous poster, I think that a check raise on the flop represents a lot of things and it is extremely weak to just surrender on the turn, isn't it?

Yes, I agree, if he had AJ, I was screwed from the beggining. But then again, ask yourself, why he is he just flatting my check raise if he has AJ? Doesn't he want to get it in on the flop? If you agree with my argument about AJ (you obviously don't have to), how much of his range does that jack really hit?10J, QJ, KJ etc don't necessarily call my CR on the flop do they? I mean it could, but its not certain.

Like I said before, I think I represent somethings on the flop with my checkraise they could make that turn pretty scary for him too. I think 77 is well within the range of what I was representing on the flop (as is AJ).

And seriously, my heart sank when that turn came, it was seriously one of the worst cards I have ever seen in my life because I was fairly certain he had AQ/AK and was going to give me his whole stack is the turn and river were blanks.

I'd like to hear your response Wizard and again I appreciate your input.

PS, again, my CR sizing sucks badly indeed.

I agree that CR flop and CF the turn is weak, however that turn card puts us in a rare, unenviable spot. By betting the turn aren't we representing AK, AJ, or 77, i.e. the top of our range. Of course our range includes many more hands that he is ahead of. If you want to rep that range on the turn, you probably need to keep that line and bet the river.

Ugh, I don't disagree but I've just been in that spot so many times when I continue the line on the river and get snapped called by the oblivious villain who doesn't even stop to think about what I'm representing in the hand. It just seemed to me that firing the turn told me a lot about my lack of fold equity, plus, I don't think I even have a PSB left so that was sort of troubling.

The turn bet was horrible. The only jack you have in your range is AJ. You yourself said that the villain would continue on with AQ and AK so what was the point of betting once you got counterfeited? Check fold the turn unless you are trying to set up some kind of weird meta game.

At a lot of tables this is a fold preflop, going to trust you on that though.

C/r this flop is going to be really difficult, you basically have to hope someone else donks or that the button has an ace. Leading here is much better.

Your c/r is also way too small.

Turn is the worst card possible, c/fold.

Yes, I agree Bluegrass, with everything you said.

Folding preflop would have been quite alright. It was a loose table with some maniacs so I thought it was ok to call but not ideal. So that is correct.

Also, leading out 2/3 pot is better than check-raising, in hindsight. That way I can get it in if I get raised by button and other wise the pot won't be so bloated?

If I just lead the flop and get a caller, then my decision is a lot easier on the turn. I think that it is easier for me to C/F turn when I lead out flop because I don't feel the need to continue my super-aggressive line. Also, I can maybe lead out turn, but I can lead out for a lot less than I would have to with the inflated pot. But check/fold on the turn is ideal I think.

Thanks everyone. This has been really helpful.