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04-10-2020 , 06:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by browni3141
Ranges are constructed by position so you don’t have more or less players to get through. Positional ranges already take that into account. Your BU 3! vs HJ RFi range should not be different 6-handed vs 9-handed. The only difference is the card removal influence of the ranges players have folded which exist in 9-max but not 6-max. Paying the blinds more often is completely irrelevant and I don’t understand why you’d think it matters.
I was pretty clear.

Re “HJ vs BTN” you can’t look at it like that when comparing strat in two different formats. It’s not SB vs. BB. We’re effectively +1, in the context of this discussion. We’re going to be opening wider +1 6 max with only 4 people behind us compared to 7 in 9 max- for obvious reasons. As a result, we can reasonably expect V’s to 3!, in an effort to isolate us IP, wider.

In this specific hand it’s less of a factor since V is passive and likely unaware but my understanding is you’re talking in general.

It’s more complicated than this, but just addressing your rebuttal.

Browni, you’re smarter than that. 6 max VPIP>9 max VPIP. 6 max 3! %>9 max 3! %. Always, assuming all else constant.

Source: multi-table 200z on ignition for lolz

Last edited by RoadtoPro; 04-10-2020 at 07:28 AM.
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04-10-2020 , 07:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Crusher
All you live players are terrible at 6max so let's just stay on topic.
love you too, DC
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04-10-2020 , 07:32 AM
What hands work best for a check raise? Hands that have showdown value in a x/x but can't beat value bets. We have that here so CRAI river

RTP - He's saying that your range in a position 6 handed is the same as your range 9 handed after the first 3 players have folded (thus resulting in 6 hands left)
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04-10-2020 , 09:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Crusher
Exactly, which is more of a case for us calling on the river.

I think the river decision largely comes down to reads, but this is 5/T, and a home game at that, vs a terrible whiskey drinking opponent. We really shouldn't be in the habit of folding to him in spots like this.

If this was a decent reg then we should be check/shipping the river some percentage of the time.



This is truly the most awful thing that has been posted in this thread thus far regardless of whether you think we should proceed in this hand.



Regarding preflop, I'm just not going to fold for $65 more when the villain isn't a complete nit. We are getting a pretty good price so it can't really be too terrible to call here. That being said, folding preflop does make a lot of sense. This villain isn't 3betting us very often and is never exploiting our folds, so I can understand passing up on this potentially high variance spot for better/easier spots where we have the equity advantage. Also, if anything we may be a bit optimistic thinking that he 3bets AJs/ATs. That being said, I do think he has to have some percentage of spazz plays, which would be more reason to call.

So yeah, I'm calling pre but can't fault anyone for folding given that we have equity and positional disadvantages. 4-betting just defies all logic whatsoever though. I'd expect that out of a tournament player or a 21 year old kid that lacks discipline and patience.
Your arrogance really shines when you get some whiskey in you...I really hope for your own good that you don't play like that when you get back to live.

I was saying I wouldn't be shocked if AA/KK got checked back because there are people that are so terrible at value betting. I didn't say that's what's gonna happen every time. A bet doesn't mean it's a bluff...Again, it's gonna be a bluff so infrequently that it's terrible to default to x-c here.

X-shove is so terrible that I almost just ignored that part.

I said I was calling pre, but would rather 4 bet than fold. There's a huge difference between that and saying I'm actually gonna 4 bet. I'm saying I would rather turn our hand into a bluff and proceed than throw away that much equity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadtoPro
Also, sixsevenoff, there’s about a 0% chance you’re able to make the proper adjustments on the fly against someone who is better than you based on your logic itt. Can guarantee the best player in your game doesn’t listen to Bart Hanson.
Yeah, maybe someday I'll be able to play 25/50/100 like you LOL
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04-10-2020 , 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadtoPro
I was pretty clear.

Re “HJ vs BTN” you can’t look at it like that when comparing strat in two different formats. It’s not SB vs. BB. We’re effectively +1, in the context of this discussion. We’re going to be opening wider +1 6 max with only 4 people behind us compared to 7 in 9 max- for obvious reasons. As a result, we can reasonably expect V’s to 3!, in an effort to isolate us IP, wider.

In this specific hand it’s less of a factor since V is passive and likely unaware but my understanding is you’re talking in general.

It’s more complicated than this, but just addressing your rebuttal.

Browni, you’re smarter than that. 6 max VPIP>9 max VPIP. 6 max 3! %>9 max 3! %. Always, assuming all else constant.

Source: multi-table 200z on ignition for lolz
Of course SH VPIP > FR VPIP! Because in FR, playing UTG, +1 and +2 generally lowers your VPIP. Same applies for RFI.

What's so hard to understand about that?
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04-10-2020 , 01:44 PM
I like to bet very small on the riv to try and induce a light call from AK. However small that may be... even if it’s 20% or 15% or even 10% pot

When our opponents don’t bluff enough, it means we can’t profitably bluff catch. Which means we should be betting our medium value hands.
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04-10-2020 , 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixsevenoff
I was saying I wouldn't be shocked if AA/KK got checked back because there are people that are so terrible at value betting.
Which means he has less bets for value here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixsevenoff
Again, it's gonna be a bluff so infrequently that it's terrible to default to x-c here.
I guess you're just basing that off this description: "He is fairly passive. He doesn’t bluff or semi-bluff enough." but I think this is probably the more relevant information: "Villain is typical of the losing players in this game. Drinking whiskey and playing too many hands."

A typical losing 5/T homegame player that is drinking. Sounds like the type of player that often doesn't bet when he should and does bet when he shouldn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixsevenoff
I said I was calling pre, but would rather 4 bet than fold. There's a huge difference between that and saying I'm actually gonna 4 bet. I'm saying I would rather turn our hand into a bluff and proceed than throw away that much equity.
Yeah, let's turn nearly the top of our raising range into a bluff when a bad fairly passive drinking recreational player 3bets us. This is definitely not Bart Hanson approved.
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04-10-2020 , 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadtoPro
I was pretty clear.

Re “HJ vs BTN” you can’t look at it like that when comparing strat in two different formats. It’s not SB vs. BB. We’re effectively +1, in the context of this discussion. We’re going to be opening wider +1 6 max with only 4 people behind us compared to 7 in 9 max- for obvious reasons. As a result, we can reasonably expect V’s to 3!, in an effort to isolate us IP, wider.

In this specific hand it’s less of a factor since V is passive and likely unaware but my understanding is you’re talking in general.

It’s more complicated than this, but just addressing your rebuttal.

Browni, you’re smarter than that. 6 max VPIP>9 max VPIP. 6 max 3! %>9 max 3! %. Always, assuming all else constant.

Source: multi-table 200z on ignition for lolz
I’ve played with this opponent a lot. I can tell you, he is not positionally aware. He doesn’t play position. He is the kind of player who will limp call and call multiple streets to draw.
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04-10-2020 , 03:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixsevenoff

Yeah, maybe someday I'll be able to play 25/50/100 like you LOL
If you’re trying to insult me, you’re doing a bad job. Try harder.

I’m not trying to show you how good I am lmao, I’m trying to be helpful by engaging and taking you through exactly why your logic is flawed. Especially since you seem to think my lines are atrocious consistently.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m going to stop trying since I take it that you don’t respect my opinion? Would rather not waste my time then. I respect yours fwiw, just addressing the cookie cutter strategy (b/f, b/f, b/f!) you keep thinking is super standard. You’re completely oblivious to the fact that you’re leaving a ridiculous amount of money on the table in an effort to simplify things across the board. Learn to think for yourself dude.

Yeah I’m a victim of FPS sometimes (5 bet shoving J3s preflop) but I’ve also come pretty far in the very short time I’ve been playing. At least in my estimation.

It seems as if I’m not the only one leading 15% pot ($75) on the river?
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04-10-2020 , 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
TBH, this is a fold pf with JJ pf and the range you gave to AJs. He's got a 60/40 advantage with his range. Don't worry about him exploiting you with this range, he isn't going to be doing this often.

On the river he's going to whine, swear, then call you with QQ. Just c/f.
venice is actually right in this situation. but I don't put a lot of QQs in his range. almost exclusively KK and AA.
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04-10-2020 , 03:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PFunkaliscious
venice is actually right in this situation. but I don't put a lot of QQs in his range. almost exclusively KK and AA.
How are you able to do that? OP could only narrow it down to: "a range of JJ+, AJs+, maybe ATs." I find it fascinating that you view his range as so much tighter than OP views it, especially considering this is a fun drinking 5/T home game.
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04-10-2020 , 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Crusher
How are you able to do that? OP could only narrow it down to: "a range of JJ+, AJs+, maybe ATs." I find it fascinating that you view his range as so much tighter than OP views it, especially considering this is a fun drinking 5/T home game.
The game is $5-$10 simply because all of the players are rich lawyers and businessmen. It plays like a $2-$5 game, maybe with more thinking players than you normally find at $2-$5, but they’re not as solid as the $5-$10 I’ve tried my hand at at Bellagio, for example.
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04-10-2020 , 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Crusher
How are you able to do that? OP could only narrow it down to: "a range of JJ+, AJs+, maybe ATs." I find it fascinating that you view his range as so much tighter than OP views it, especially considering this is a fun drinking 5/T home game.
You're telling me you can't just plug your general strat into every spot and assign population tendencies to every villain?

Interesting...

Call 60% pot flop, x/x turn, x/f river on T-6-4-7-T w/ jack-jack at a fun drinking mid-stakes home game smh.
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04-10-2020 , 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shantideva
The game is $5-$10 simply because all of the players are rich lawyers and businessmen. It plays like a $2-$5 game, maybe with more thinking players than you normally find at $2-$5, but they’re not as solid as the $5-$10 I’ve tried my hand at at Bellagio, for example.
V's range is the most important part of this hand. Thinking or not, we don't have a solid enough read to simply c/f river to a reasonable bet (see last few pages).

Based on: "I give him a range of JJ+, AJs+, [AQo+?], maybe ATs." he's going to have a ton of air on the river. ATs was a maybe and he doesn't have any ATo so in order words he has very few tens.

We don't have nearly enough info to justify calling flop and then folding to one more barrel, which is why c/f river is the worst option.

c/r river due to polarity advantage, c/c river, lead river super small>c/f

If his assigned range was tighter/more standard-ish and included less A-highs it would change things, of course. Basing our strat in this spot off of ranges that the average LLSNL player 3! pre (much tighter) doesn't make any sense to me.
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04-10-2020 , 05:19 PM
This villain should know that I would open and call his 3-bet with a lot of hands. Suites wheel aces, 76s+, lots of middle pairs, etc. I checked the river, he bet $300. I called and took it down. He had whiffed AKo.
He then tilted.
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04-10-2020 , 08:54 PM
nh man. pays to not be scared money.
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04-13-2020 , 08:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadtoPro
I was pretty clear.

Re “HJ vs BTN” you can’t look at it like that when comparing strat in two different formats.
Yes you can, and you should. Do you really have a different set of strategies for each of 3-9 max? That's 35 RFI strategies. I only need 8.

Sure it's a bit off topic but there's not a lot going on in the forum and it's important to understand that strategies should be based off of positions, not number of players at the table. Practically, playing HJ after one fold in a 6-max game is the same as playing HJ after four folds in a 9-max game. HJ is HJ regardless of number of players and it's important to recognize that when players can get up or come in between hands.
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04-17-2020 , 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shantideva
This villain should know that I would open and call his 3-bet with a lot of hands. Suites wheel aces, 76s+, lots of middle pairs, etc. I checked the river, he bet $300. I called and took it down. He had whiffed AKo.
He then tilted.
Shantiva, you played it great. Against a player type like this they 98% bet overpairs on turn.
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