Shot-taking at 2/4 I came across what started out as an awesome table, and then got bad, so I was on my way out. A assume I'm unknown to him, and my only read is that he's definitely not a fish.


Party Poker $400.00 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players - View hand 24258
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $247.80
SB: $400.00
BB: $408.10
UTG: $124.50
UTG+1: $407.80
MP1: $348.55
Hero (MP2): $403.50
CO: $400.00

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is MP2 with A A
3 folds, Hero raises to $12, 2 folds, SB calls $10, 1 fold

Flop: ($28.00) K K 8 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

I think I'm way ahead of his range here, but being an unknown I'd rather play the "I'm scared of high cards" role. I think it works given that I'm WA/WB here, but for the most part, way ahead. I also have no read on whether he floats or not. With history, I'd probably just cbet.

Turn: ($28.00) 3 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $14.00, SB raises to $48, Hero calls $34

He checks again, and I fire 1/2 pot for value, but I also figure I might incite a raise from a really small PP or air that wants to get rid of 77/66. I contemplate minraising, but I don't really know if that'd spazz him out (prolly not). I don't think Kx is in his range all that much, so I'd really just be fearing 88/33 if he jammed. Without a read, I just called.

River: ($124.00) Q (2 players)
SB bets $48.00, Hero calls $48

I think this is either a VB (unlikely) or the small pair aiming for a bluff. Raising seems bad, and folding seems like LOL. Thoughts?

I think you're dominated here. He would not perceive this as a good bluff card at all and after you call turn he shuts down most of his bluffs.

The question is, are you good enough to make a siiiick call?

With what though? One of the problems I'm having here is figuring out what my perceived calling range is here on the river. Perhaps I should've just bet/bet/bet.

I see no reason to not bet this flop. You make spades pay and since there are two Kings out there, you might get value from a smaller PP.

The river card is brutal for you since the draw got there too. His river bet size is BEGGING you to call. I would fold, but I will be you called and got shown KQ.

im thinking that fold > raise > call but i might have the first two in the wrong order i doubt that idiot is smart enough to induce vs a random here only a true genius would do that

why do people take the most weak/tight lines possible

level i hope

nothing wrong with the flop check, op's reasons for it are bad though. He's unlikely to get three streets of value vs a good player so I definitely don't mind the flop check.

ive no idea what he can have here, i guess call since u are getting a really good price

River bet hardly looks like a bluff, 33 planning to b/3b perhaps?

Checking flop is ok sometimes, I guess. I don't like 3 betting the turn because I feel like it overreps our hand (with us being an unknown) and I have no ****** idea of what raising the river is hoping to accomplish because we sure as **** aint never gonna get called by worse when he takes this line (except for a VERY random Qx) so it's a clear call getting that price.

I'm betting stronger on the turn, also... prob 5.5 big blinds or something.

Please always bet the flop. This is like the best cbet board ever. Turn bet more and if he raises you here just fold.

As played this looks ok i guess. You need t bet the flop.

Nice hand.

I fold turn.

Well, I can't answer for everyone, but for me...at the time I felt that playing like a giant vag would minimize my chances of being outplayed, while maximizing value if I was ahead.

For me, it is becuz in general, CR turn + lead river (esp. when a scare card comes) is not a hand that one pair can beat. Granted, Hero has under-repped his hand here which argues for a call, but I just don't think we get showed TT and JJ here often enough to make it +EV. Villain's bet doesn't look like a blocker...looks like he is taking Hero on a stroll in value town.

didnt mean to come off arrogant

flop seems like an easy bet, i think this is a misapplication of WA/WB and you give up your initiative in the pot

once u check behind on flop you are self-polarizing your perceived range to Kx or weak pairs so you are inducing from almost his entire range

on river bet sizing (especially against an unknown) screams value town but he puts you on an extremely weak range so he is definitely value betting worse hands. you are making it way too hard on yourself though, you should be the one exerting pressure in this hand, not the other way around.

And why is this bad?

Saying you have to bet this flop or that checking is bad is narrow-minded. Balancing between betting and checking here is fine.

i dont think there is a problem with checking behind sometimes for balance/deception, was just saying in a vacuum bet > check

it very possibly isn't

you are very unlikely to get three or even two streets of value from a worse hand, so depending on the opponent checking behind could easily show a greater profit imo

i think i'd normally bet too but to posit that betting is clearly better is kinda ridiculous

im still trying to tell all yall idiots that this is a fairly trivial river fold. maybe a raise is slightly better but truthfully i doubt it.

Your hand looks like 99, TT. So he might value bet a Q. The problem is that I have a hard time thinking of a Q that checkraises the turn.

petero probably doesn't have an Kx combo's... maybe AK..but i think he'd 3bet that pre most of the time...as played, you have to call i guess.

the turn bet also sucks, and is screaming for a good reg to put you in a tough spot

his line looks pretty strong.

imho your mistake comes when you decided to play your hand differently at higher stakes than you would at your normal ones. i think taking shots is def necessary especially on a good weekend, but its the same game. now im not saying there aren't important differences in the limits, i.e 2-4 is more agro than 1-2, but the bottom line is its the same game.

betting gives you more information than checking, and in your 1-2 game (if that is your normal limits) you're betting this flop against an unknown 99% of time right? so you should bet flop here too. when you bet this flop you gain more info against villains hand range than checking, and ultimately checking this flop is what got u in a messy turn and river spot where you're guessing. is he bluffing cuz he thinks im a weaker 2-4 unknown and is pushing me around? is he VBing me?, etc, and you had problems getting rid of your AA because of the flop check. so you should have bet.

then after the cbet you go from there, peeling one to a check raise and re-evaluating turn, pot controlling when he calls, etc. but it just sounds to me like the bigger limit affected your thought process.

that being said,most of us have done this and you can easily correct this and im not insulting you by saying this. when i went from $25nl to $50nl, i got pwnd, $50nl to $100nl same thing, and $200nl was even worse. i finally got rid of this bad habit moving to $400 (knock on wood). the subtle differences in the games like the hyper aggressiveness of $400, you will eventually learn how to adjust to, and whoever adjusts the best does the best, but don't change the basics and totally mess with your head or you're due for a bad shot at the new limit.

jam river and laugh in his face when he mucks a flush????