$1/3 8-handed
Hero HJ with QsQd
Effective stack $230

Preflop action: UTG, UTG1, LJ all limp. Hero $20. CO and BB call.

Flop Tc3s2s (Pot $62)

Action: BB checks, Hero $35, CO folds, BB check raises $210 total all in.

Villain: 60-70 Asian gentleman who has not been aggressive short time on table. No other reads.

Call or fold?

Seems like you'd want to go bigger preflop.

Would bet less than half pot on flop. Probably just $20 again without reads.

Flop x/r is absurd random fish move ... almost certainly a set, without reads.

In theory it might be a call but save your money.

I Was betting half pot on flop but didn’t calculate the rake + jackpot drop. I usually will c-bet 1/4- 1/3 multiway but sized up a little due to flush draw.

It's sort of a wet flop in that it allows top pair + flush draw. It's a flop that likely missed your raising hand unless you have a big pair. Villain's stack on the flop was SPR just over 3, he is largely in a shove/fold situation. If you knew more about villain this could be an easy call or easy fold.

Without that it's a judgement call. I lean call in abstract but I could go either way at the table depending on how aggressive I think villain can be here with a flush draw.

He just left my table about 30 minutes ago. I never saw him open raise the entire time he was here. No 3 bet. Always called pre-flop. I never saw him check raise another pot.

Obviously I didn’t have the info at the time.

What I was trying to figure out in real time was:
1. Does he shove for value with worse (aside from ATss)?
2. How aggressive is he with flush draws?
3. How relevant is my Qs? Does it significantly skew him towards value?

Always calling here without any other info. Could be Tx for value, could be flush draws.

AP I would call here.

It's a single raise pot not 3-bet, so he may not put you in overpair. In his mind you could've c-bet two overs or a smaller pocket pair. If he had a set and your range was so wide, check-jam a set could have lost a lot of value.

Villain can have a lot of Txss, Axss inc. A4ss & A5ss. He could even be playing aggressively with 99 or JJ.

All good points. In real time, I did not give him credit for such a wide check raising range. Perhaps, I am an ageist whilst at the poker table…

Overfolding to checkraises vs older fishy players is a good strategy in general, but I would call here. There are a lot of good points being made in this thread, but here a few more reasons why I would call here:

- Villain has no two pair combinations in his range. This means he only has 9 combos of value that beat you. How many combos of Tx of spades and Ax of spades are there? Many of these combos (particularly ATss A4ss A5ss) would be very easy hands for a fish to find a xjam with.

- We beat some combos of strangely played value, mainly JJ.

- This is not a standard line one would expect a player to take with a set. Do players make massive jams with sets on flush draw boards sometimes? Sure. But I don't think it's the default play. I think that would be to raise smaller.

- We actually have real equity against a set here. It's not like calling off AK against 66 on K62r where we are dead. With two overset outs and a backdoor flush draw, we have something like 12% equity here. That's not great, considering we need 37% equity to profitably call this spot. But it's not nothing either.

Raise more pre to like 24/25 after the 3 limpers.

I think the only hand in his range that we beat is JJ. He has all the sets and players of his description hardly do this with Tx and when passive players c/r like this it's usually at least two pair plus so since I've never seen him raise, bet draws aggressively or anything else like that I'm gonna make a tight hero fold here but that's just me.

In the midst of my tank I said “what are you raising here, sir? You don’t have any pair here. Are you really jamming your flush draws? Did you bink a set on me?”

He did not look nervous. He did not make eye contact with me. He just looked down at his cards the whole time. He did not respond to my talking. I also wasn’t really talking to him, more so trying to work out what his range was with his actions.

I usually bet in multiples of $5 to make the game run faster. I adjusted later in the session to raise to $25 versus 3 limpers. I was still feeling out the table at this point since I was there for maybe 2-3 orbits.

All of this.

/thread.

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Ok that's good so I would go to 25 then

With 3 limps ahead of me im going bigger preflop to 25 or 30.

I would also go bigger on the flop. They are only going to call w Tx and flush draws and those hands will call 50 as readily as 35.

Im calling off to this jam. A lot of players will do this with flush draws or maybe a combo draw like 54ss, A4ss, A5ss. Tx probably just calls in my live experience so im ruling that out. There are more combos of flush draws and combo draws than sets so its a snap call for me and we have the Qs which is even better in case we are behind to a set.

I actually played a very similar hand not long ago where i also had black queens but it was a 3bet pot and the biggest pot ive ever played. Villain jammed over my cbet quite large w A3 for just a naked flush draw and of course he rivered the ace for about a $1800 pot.

The main takeaway is that typical live players that you do not have tagged as good players are serial slow players. They almost never fast play strong hands like this and they often will only call down even with sets. Im happy to call this off and if he has a set he has it but i expect to be facing a draw a large percentage of the time.

You played it fine. This V type lives to cooler opponents. His jam is never a bluff, always super thick value.

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This is a very helpful perspective. This is not something I had considered for this particular opponent. I just didn’t think he’d do it was a lot of naked flash draws. I thought his bluffing range would still be high equity draws like pair plus flush and pair plus straight draws.

It is funny you say that. He seemed kind of annoyed/frustrated the rest of the time he was playing at my table. He eventually just jumped to another table without asking for a table change or saying anything to anyone. He didn’t get into any major pots after our hand together.

very easy call, you are probably an equity favorite vs his xrai range without even looking at the dead money already provided. overpair at spr 3ish on a board where 2p isn't really possible, would not shock me to see tx / jj get xjammed here some amount, also draws. somewhat less likely he xrai with top of range. you just can't bf this readless, stacks are way too shallow compared to the size of the pot.

I would say normally I am snap calling here. I don’t know exactly why my alarm bells were ringing against this gentleman. He may have bluffed me right out of my shoes. It felt super nitty when I mucked it. With the feedback I am getting on this thread I am still not entirely sure how I feel about my play. With the information I had at the time I think it was a bad play. After observing him play another hour or so he was completely passive though…

Call. It’s not even close. If you lose to a set, you’ll win next time.

Eventually it's about whether you want to do the right thing (fold, if the reveal was that he had KK), or do things right (call).

As you have said yourself, your alarm bell was on, and that's a reaction based on all the info you collected around this V, and your alarm might lead you to do the right thing. On the other hand, the description that we as readers could receive about this V was already second hand info, and each of us would then filter & process it differently. Therefore what everyone says here is more like a standard suggestion with a bit of deviation based on the read of V, but I have no problem with your fold as an one-off exploit.

yeah idk. this isnt really a reason not to do something thats so clearly +ev (calling is probably worth idk 30-50 bb?). its very different if the spr is 15 or something and he xjams or even here if he jams and the other guy also wants to jam you can reevaluate, but you're very clearly committed at this spr. its just risk aversion / general nittiness imo. the guy starts the hand with 76 bb lol. this isnt the place to hero fold. you can say you dont think he has many not strong semi bluffs but 1) we dont know if thats true as you have legitimately 0 reads and 2) you're getting laid half of 40bb by the pot to flip if thats the case. you need to understand when the spr is such that you're committed, here the its very similar to a 3b pot but ranges are much wider.

dont really care what people say about their hand after the fact if they don't show their cards, also seeing someone play tight for an hour (~25 hands) doesn't justify this at all.