So, I've been lurking the forums for a while and I guess for me to improve it's time I started posting some hands to get some advice and become part of the community.

Anyway, to the hand and some context before. Recently won a small pot vs villain in-position with a bet-check-bet line where he semi-tank folded the river.
Game is £1/£1

Hero ~ 280
Villain ~ 250

My impression of Villain; Plays poker as a leisure activity, drinking rum & coke, well-dressed (ie I would assume Villain could afford to lose 2BI quite easily and not effect livelihood or w/e)

Villain also talking to table about "lucky" hands ie wins with pocket 6s, loses with pocket 7s, etc.. So far played reasonably aggressive preflop (for live standards) ie when entering a pot probably raising 3/4 times limping the rest. But very passive post; check-calling most of the time.

To the hand: 2 limpers, Hero in CO has AQo and raises to 8 (Button is a pure nit, so when I raise I expect him to fold everything bar PPs and AKs/AQs). Villain in BB calls and the 2 limpers call as well.

Flop (£33): AQ4 checked to me I bet 20, Villain tank calls (really umming aahing hum haw - I don't think villain is thinking of raising but I could be wrong) - 2 limpers fold.

Turn (£73) 7 Villain checks I bet 30 (on reflection this is horrible I should be betting 45-50 i'm pretty new to live and my bet sizing is definitely something I need to work on. Villain virtually insta-calls.

River (£133) K Villain looks down at stack, looks at pot and declares all-in. Hero?

PS.
Not sure if there's some basic stuff I missed that I should be adding to help the conversation out etc... feel free to comment/flame

This is JT often enough for u to fold and feel pretty ok about it imo.
I would rule out busted FDs.
Could be a ******edly played set if he is really bad.
Could also be KQ if hes a monkey.
But Id fold.


And as u already pointed out, ur mistake in the hand was ur turnbet sizing.

Welcome to the forums.

Preflop I'd try raising to a size that typically gets us HU/3way in this spot as I don't think we usually want to go 4+ ways to a flop (or at least I don't, they're simply harder to play). For example, you might have to tailor your raise sizes based on the amount of limpers, tendency of tables, etc.

On the flop vs lottsa opponents and a drawy board, I think I'm more apt to bet closer to the size of the pot (whereas with fewer opponents / less drawy board I'm betting closer to 1/2 pot, which is also my typical cbet size).

That's a good safe card for us on the turn and we've still most likely got the best hand. I'm probably betting 1/2 - 2/3 pot.

River is just a horrible spot, imo. He's way overbet the pot here ($190 into a $133) so we're getting horrible odds. It's also a big bet in terms of BB (almost 100 BB, we can't be donking this off left and right like it's no big deal). With the flush draw on board, it seems very odd that he'd play a set this way (I'd expect a big raise on the turn). AK is very viable. I guess a busted flush draw is possible. To me, it comes down to read on villain. This villain is described as very check/cally passive post. So I fold and move on to next hand (but by no means am I convinced I'm right). ETA: I missed JT, which leans this even more to a fold, imo.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Doesn't really feel like AK to me because of the hesitation on the flop, unless he's just acting. JT or A7 I think.

Bet sizing is hard when you're first starting out. I'm still learning, but I've found that taking my time when it's my turn really helps me with appropriate bet sizing, at least getting them in the ballpark. I probably bet $45-$50 on the turn in the same situation. I don't want villian to fold but I don't want him to get to the river for cheap either.

I would fold the river as played given the over bet but it's really read dependent ( and mostly I suck ).

Bet flop more; these guys don't care about pot odds and paying a bad price with draws, plus they'll call with any Ace/Queen/FDs/KJ/KT/QT/JT and sometimes 4x. If they're folding to $20, they're folding whatever you bet, but the same goes for them calling.

So flop I'm betting $25.

Turn, yeah you're bet sizing is horrible. I definitely want to get stacks in on a safe river. Pot is ~$73, and villain has ~$230 behind. $50 bet will make the pot $173 with villain having ~$180 behind. You can actually bet $50 here and shove the river, without villain realising you've overbet; they probably don't count the pot, they just figure you're all in, whatever (to their POV).

But I reckon you can bet more, as their calling range hasn't changed much on the turn as to what it is on the flop, although 4x/Qx start to go away. But that's alright, cause there is still a heap of gutters/FDs/Ax that will call. And these guys don't understand pot odds and drawing odds; they 'think' they do, but really they've got NFI!

So turn I'm betting more like $55-$60. Probably on the high side though. $60 bet sets up $193 river pot, leaving villain ~$170 behind.

River is gross. You're read is that this guy is passive/calling postlfop? Gross.

When villain pushed all in, did he move his stack into the middle, or leave it sitting it sitting in front of him? If he moved it into the middle, and chip stacks fell over, and he then a)put them back into nice chip towers (I'm now swayed to calling), or b)leave them in a mess as they fell (I'm inclined to fold).

Gross gross gross! But you said after river came down he 1. looked at his stack, 2. looked at the pot in the middle, and then 3. pushed.

So this guy really likes his hand. A lot of KQ hands in villain's hands would've raised preflop, or if not they probably don't call turn (although maybe they do cause of your weak turn bet, but this is becoming fancy thinking I think so just ignore it). AK/KK usually raise preflop, but maybe he got fancy with AK.

JT fits his line perfectly though, and to a lesser extent A7/A4. However A7/A4 is less likely to push river I think. But even giving villain all A7/A4/JT hands, you're against 16x JT hands (you lose), and 6x A7 and 6x A4 hands. 16 hands you lose, 12 hands you lose, pot odds then would say call river, however A4/A7 doesn't overbet push river often enough, plus villains love to always "read you for AK", so now A7/A4 are even less likely.

Cry, cry a little more, and fold. There's too much saying you're beat:

1. JT plays exactly like this.
2. Villain's passive/calling station.
3. Read when river fell that villain looked at his chips, then pot, and then pushed.

also pf AK is going to frequently three-bet pre.

JT seems pretty unlikely to me because hes frequently going to be folding it on the flop?

FWIW I think KQ is his most likely hand. Then for some reason I feel like KK could be played this way from this type of person.

I prolly fold.

His snap call on the turn almost makes me think 77. I mean, usually you see some thought about pot size etc on an straight draw. The snap call would scare me a little even though you under bet it. That reads to me Ace good kicker or two pair or 77. The all in shove would have me fold. He might very well have AQ as well and just be a nut but.... So be it. Fold...

so he bet 192 into 133?

folding for sure.

You say he is a pure nit and that he is very passive postflop.

He takes time thinking about the hand and then calls. This means he is either contemplating folding or raising. Logical raising hands he could have at that point (as a nit) are sets or AK. Then a king drops and he goes all-in. This means that he probably has AK (or maybe still a set). It is sad that you have to fold here but since he is a nit you are able to put him on AK or a set here and you fold.

Lower bet size in that spot is really not as bad as you think. If you feel the opponent is a nit and won't continue with the hand unless he has premium holdings, betting less might get him to call with weaker hands and he is still folding if he has nothing.

In the end I folded I wasn't too happy but it was relatively early in the evening and I felt I would have better spots against this particular villain.

I definitely felt turn or river improved villain's hand, at the time the range I assigned him was JT, 77, AK, KQ, A7, with AK the least likely as I would have expected him to 3b (Although in my experience most live players play AK quite passively).

Thanks for your responses.

PS. I guess it could have also been KK getting tricky pre or 44 getting tricky on the flop but my reads were he would almost certainly 3b KK pre and crai 44 on turn

As a donk and a villain, I have to say that a fold there based on pot odds is definitely the right move..but then, when you over-think the hand and take in consideration there was a flush draw on flop and the villain seemed to be chasing since he was only calling you all along and add your mistake on turn (bet sizing mistake, cuz betting was definitely the play with top two..) with a set, the villain would of raise the turn to pretend a semi-bluff,AK = raise pre flop!, JT is the nuts so why overbet? Why push an opponent off the hand if you're holding the "goods" ! To me it looks like he doesn't want a call there + given you're mistake on turn,he probly puts you on weak A or something crazy like that , which would be fairly easy to bluff or at least an easy fold for the you facing an overbet like that! So I say giving you're bet sizing mistake on turn, good fold! But you probably lost a big pot there against KJh! The only two hands that the villain could have there that wouldn't be a bluff there would be KK or 44 giving the hesitation on flop! Most likely 44,but if so it's a gutsy play from him with the set on turn giving the call there, so KK,44 played as weird as you play or bluffs so that being said, you would of bet 55$ on turn you probly wouldn't be posting that hand on two plus two ! I hate doing mistake!

Depending on the room, in many live games AK is very rarely 3bet.


I suck at live, so I don't have much input.. But I've played enough to know you simply cannot take AK out of his range.

Also, 50+ on the turn so you can comfortably shove the river

I find it super difficult to quickly count the pot just by looking at it and guesstimating. I was constantly betting less than half the pot until I started keeping track of every bet as it goes in, and have a running total ready before the next street is dealt. Just fwiw.

This guy nailed it! I especially like the part about how a player handles his fallen chipstack. I just realized that I have this exact tell (I fix the stacks when I'm bluffing).