1/2/3

KdKc UTG 415

I raise 20, SB, BB call

Flop Jc6s5s

SB check, BB shove 36

I call, SB shove 177

Call or fold? And should I have shoved in response to the first shove?

No brainer call at this depth. Especially since you just flatted shortie’s shove.

Call

Reads are the most important factor when making these types of decision, there are plenty of players I would fold to if they were the BB but I don't see any reason to fold here.

Snap call.

I mean in response to the SB

Surprised everyone is so confident on this, I feel like two pair/set is a significant part of the shoving range for SB here

Advocating for a snap call does not mean that we are so confident that you will not lose the hand. Obviously sets are in your opponents ranges. But we are very shallow and you can’t be folding over pairs when in addition to sets, your opponents have a bunch of weaker value hands and semi bluffs.

What is the value of semibluffing here? There's already an all in in the pot, so they'd just be bluffing at my 36 and nothing else.

It's a snap because SB is so shallow and the board is so draw-y.

Because they want you to fold and/or see two cards.

True. Dry side pot. But they may have enough equity that they are indifferent to folds or calls. And they may just be clueless.

I learned later they were, in fact, a maniac, and so if I had known that the call would be easy.

Though, when they sat down, they did start talking about hitting a runner runner in a game with quadruple straddle... maybe I should have used that as info?

Raising just because they want to see the cards is an interesting idea

Oops I meant to say the SB, the BB was obviously not even a decision.

Yeah pretty easy call unless we're up against an OMC type.

I think the interesting decision is raise or call the BB shove.

If they just call and brick on the turn, it's hard to call a bet from you and they might not get to see the river. They have a big draw and want to see turn and river, they shove. They also might have a little fold equity, so throwing that in, shoving with a draw makes sense. If I was going to put more money in on a draw here and thought there was a chance you'd fold, I'd shove all day.

Would be nice if we had any reads at all on SB.

I agree that 2P/sets make up some portion of SB's x/jam range here. But there's $132 in the pot when it comes back to him, so it's just over 1 SPR for him. I think he's supposed to jam with any JX or better.

Since you just flat-called BB's jam, he might be putting you on a hand that will likely fold, like AKo, or 77-TT, or a flush draw that will likely call but also likely brick out. With the additional fold equity from his re-jam, he could have any J, or a combo-draw, and possibly a lot of hands we beat, including PP from 77-99, and some nut flush / 2nd nut flush draws.

We're getting around 2.2 to 1. I think that means we only need about 31.5% equity against his range.

Assume he doesn't have JJ, and he's not 3B'ing pre with 66/55. He's got 6 combos of 66/55, and 3 of 65s. We're a 9:1 dog against his sets, and 3:1 against his 2P.

If we give him 87ss, 74ss, 43ss, 77-99, a bunch of Jx, and some AXss/KXss, I think there's enough we beat to get us to 31.5%.

There's a big difference between having a stack of 1K and c/r'ing the flop to 177 and having only 177 left and jamming. When they jam, their ranges are wider because they're just "going with the hand" whereas if they had much more in their stack the raise would have a lot more strength.

That would be the NEXT two cards, as in turn and river, rather than YOUR two cards.

Good to see it laid out like this.

This is an interesting idea. What do you mean by "going with the hand"?

These hands: 87ss, 74ss, 43ss, 77-99, a bunch of Jx, and some AXss/KXss.

Going with the hand means either calling, raising or jamming but not folding.

Why should that be exclusive to playing shallow?

He already answered this. I am beginning to wonder if you are trolling?

Lol same