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Example: when to give up defending perceived equity (?) Example: when to give up defending perceived equity (?)

03-01-2012 , 01:00 PM
Casino 5-10. I'm probably perceived as weak-tight-ish after three hours of play with some puss-outs on thin value but major bluffs. Any time a draw has been exposed, I have been playing it passively. Stack is about 800. Villain has all of the internet kid trappings and covers. He has been opening a lot (35-40%?) of hands to 20 even if there is a straddle and even in early position but has been only medium aggro post.

I'm UTG with the straddle on with KhJh. Villain is UTG+2 and raises to 20. BTN calls, I call.

Flop (75): Ah Jc 9h. I check, Villain bets 45, I raise to 145, Villain tank-calls.

Turn (365): 9d. I have 635 left. Now what? B/f 215 on the theory that the 9is supposed to worry him more than me? Is he just calling down with AJ the rest of the way?

Last edited by IronedSheik; 03-01-2012 at 01:27 PM.
Example: when to give up defending perceived equity (?) Quote
03-01-2012 , 07:59 PM
1. Title makes no sense.
2. If it is really 5-10, you can't raise to 20.
3. You don't call, you check because you already post the straddle, which is at least 20.
4. Turn is a double check raise all in.
Example: when to give up defending perceived equity (?) Quote
03-02-2012 , 05:24 AM
Your description of the preflop action confuses me. I shall assume that you straddled to $20, villain called, and you checked.

On the flop, I'd check/call. You have too much showdown value to turn your hand into a bluff. And taking the initiative on the flop OOP makes blank turns very difficult.

As played, on the turn, I'd probably check/call with the intention of check/folding blank rivers.

When you check the turn, your range still looks quite strong. I think villain will put you on AQ/AJ that is afraid of 9x, and he will check behind with most of his Ax hands. If villain does bet the turn, I think his range contains mostly semibluffs like 65hh and QT, which you are crushing, so calling is fine. On the river, I think he gives up unless he has trips or better, so check/folding is fine.
Example: when to give up defending perceived equity (?) Quote
03-02-2012 , 05:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by novel20
4. Turn is a double check raise all in.
This. Also lead flop.
Example: when to give up defending perceived equity (?) Quote
03-02-2012 , 09:06 AM
OP should be me in the straddle, villain calls to start.
Example: when to give up defending perceived equity (?) Quote
03-02-2012 , 11:10 AM
Id just go near pot on the turn....def think we should c/r flop as played - we fold out some better hands and sometimes value town worse Kx/draws.....we have a ton of equity regardless
Example: when to give up defending perceived equity (?) Quote
03-03-2012 , 11:30 AM
I would bet around $220 on turn, If he reraises me all in on turn I would call. this hand has equity. On river if a blank hit I would check hoping he checks for a free showdown. I would probably fold if he puts me all in and save my last $400 or so. I would give him credit for a hand on the river since he called your raise on flop and your turn bet.
Example: when to give up defending perceived equity (?) Quote
03-03-2012 , 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by signalstrewn
This. Also lead flop.
wrong. ch/c flop
Example: when to give up defending perceived equity (?) Quote
03-03-2012 , 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNGplayer24
Id just go near pot on the turn....def think we should c/r flop as played - we fold out some better hands and sometimes value town worse Kx/draws.....we have a ton of equity regardless
ch/r flop is not the best option. ch/c is the best option. we are either way ahead or slightly behind. No need to get it in with at best 50/50 equity.

ch/r flop is better with combo straight flush draws, cuz we don't have any showdown value.
Example: when to give up defending perceived equity (?) Quote
03-05-2012 , 02:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bamboo6386
ch/r flop is not the best option. ch/c is the best option. we are either way ahead or slightly behind. No need to get it in with at best 50/50 equity.

ch/r flop is better with combo straight flush draws, cuz we don't have any showdown value.
problem with c/cing is we cant fold out Ax, and we cant valuetown draws....most of the time he isnt going to have 2 pr/sets so not too worried about getting this in.
Example: when to give up defending perceived equity (?) Quote
03-05-2012 , 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNGplayer24
problem with c/cing is we cant fold out Ax, and we cant valuetown draws....most of the time he isnt going to have 2 pr/sets so not too worried about getting this in.
we don't need to valuetown draws. we have the nut draw and get cooler value, or get him to bluff value.

his 3 bet range on flop will be two pair,sets or AK and very rarely air or combo draw.

you want his air to barrel here. this hand is basically like having A2, would you check raise with that hand?
Example: when to give up defending perceived equity (?) Quote
03-05-2012 , 04:22 PM
1) We can fold out Ax
2)Our hand is much better than A2 because it can improve to winners vs. 2pair and better aces much more easily and we can value bet when we do.
Example: when to give up defending perceived equity (?) Quote
03-05-2012 , 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bamboo6386
we don't need to valuetown draws. we have the nut draw and get cooler value, or get him to bluff value.

his 3 bet range on flop will be two pair,sets or AK and very rarely air or combo draw.

you want his air to barrel here. this hand is basically like having A2, would you check raise with that hand?
I mean you clearly get more cooler value/value from draws c/r - your not stacking him when you c/c here against his worst flush draw/combo.....His bluffing frequency is the only argument I see, but hed have to triple barrel at a good frequency to justify imo.

this is nothing like having a2.
Example: when to give up defending perceived equity (?) Quote
03-06-2012 , 09:55 AM
Both of us would have thought it fairly unlikely the other has an ace given pre, FWIW. That's why in retrospect I think the flop should have been a c/c. Stacks are such that flush-over-flush is going in anyway if it comes in. So the flop raise really is just building a pot when I don't need to.
Example: when to give up defending perceived equity (?) Quote
03-06-2012 , 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronedSheik
Both of us would have thought it fairly unlikely the other has an ace given pre, FWIW. That's why in retrospect I think the flop should have been a c/c. Stacks are such that flush-over-flush is going in anyway if it comes in. So the flop raise really is just building a pot when I don't need to.
so he never raises to 20 with an ace? you never call a raise with an ace? I dont follow.
Example: when to give up defending perceived equity (?) Quote
03-06-2012 , 03:37 PM
A c/r on this board is going to be much more draw heavy given board texture and pre-flop action.

I'd probably c/c here
Example: when to give up defending perceived equity (?) Quote
03-06-2012 , 06:45 PM
What novel and the consultant said.
Example: when to give up defending perceived equity (?) Quote
03-06-2012 , 10:03 PM
This thread is perplexing.
Example: when to give up defending perceived equity (?) Quote
03-07-2012 , 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bamboo6386
ch/r flop is not the best option. ch/c is the best option. we are either way ahead or slightly behind. No need to get it in with at best 50/50 equity.

ch/r flop is better with combo straight flush draws, cuz we don't have any showdown value.
I agree.

There is a (somewhat) similar example in one of Andrew Brokos's latest blogs/"To c-bet or Not"/(I know we're not cbetting here but board texture is very similar)/He explains it very well IMO

(Sorry don't know how to link it)
Example: when to give up defending perceived equity (?) Quote

      
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