OK so here it goes.

Last night I'm playing 1/2 NL at my local cardroom. I've been very aggressive and just 3 barrell bluffed a guy and showed. A few hands later I straddle and get 6 callers then look down at ako. (Previously I had straddled and done the same thing as a bluff and the guy I'm about to get into it with says under his breath "jesus this idiot is just burning money, this idiot read that in a book somewhere.")

Said villain is one of the limpers... So obviously, I make a drastic bluffy looking steal attempt and raise to 40. Villain is to my direct left and snap shoves all in for 99 total and announces "I'm not going to let that work twice." Everyone else folds and I silently slide in the 59$ and he confidently flips over a4o. I don't flip over my cards as is common practice in my room (95% don't flip over and board runs out and usually someone mucks someone flips) and he instantly demands "what do you have!" And wanting to piss this guy off for being a jerk I just say "I've got you." Well the board runs out 248AJ and realize I lose. I, in an annoyed tone say, "you got there, congrats."

This is where my question lies... I start to muck my hand and he grabs my hand and says "I want to see your cards!" I'm shaking in anger at this point, and don't understand why this d-bag is acting like this when he's about to win the pot. He yells for the floor and the floor comes over and says I have to flip my cards over which I think is bull****. From what I understand this rule varies from room to room but ultimately if a player wants to see the cards you can to prevent collusion or w/e. Anyway the floor guy is being a total bitch to me I guess because I'm young and upset and he wants to show his superiority. FWIW I nonchalantly walked as if I was pleading my case to the floor and threw my hands into the muck.

Basically, ok the rule is the rule but is it not very disrespectful to do what that guy did when he won the hand?

You'll get better answers here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/27/brick-mortar/

This is something that confuses me. Why wouldn't you flip your hand over right away? You put your money in the middle! Have some pride in your decisions. This always bothers me.

Also, the floor doesn't care that you're young. I'm only 24, and I get along great with all the floor guys&gals. I'm guessing that you gave them some attitude/mouthed off in some way. They enforce the rules. Deal with their decision.

The fact that you mucked your hand even after they told you to show it is evidence of a necessry attitude adjustment.

it's been discussed over and over again. IWTSTH is not against the rules, but considered poor etiquette. Next time, jam it into the muck faster if you don't want anyone seeing your cards. Why was there enough time for the floorman to come to your table AND have a discussion with you?

hes a douche for asking to see the losing hand. i have no prob jamming my cards into the muck here.
maybe i need an attitude adjustment too?

if the floor is called and rules that you have to show your hand & you subsequently muck the cards.. yes you do.

Most certainly is.

I shoved $600 on the flop against this idiot, missed my draw, and folded my hand even before he exposed his obvious winning hand.

Even then, the guy asked to see my cards.

I shipped $600 to you and you can't even have the courtesy to let me muck in peace?

Actually OP called the villains bet. I know if the situation was reversed the caller technically has the right to ask to see the other persons hand even though it is extremly poor etiquette. I think the floor was wrong because OP CALLED the all in and does not have to expose his cards if asked. For example if OP and villain both sat there and sad what dod you have and don't reveal their cards, OP could demand villain flips fist as he called his bet.

This. Even in the reverse situation, I think it is extremely weak to make an issue of seeing the opponents cards. Take the pot, be happy, move on. Act like you've been in the endzone before.

He can request to see your hand since it reached showdown. I usually only do it against strong players since it is bad etiquette.

Why did you not want to show your hand? You obviously had the image of a bluffer and showing a strong hand would be beneficial to your image. You induce mistakes when your opponents aren't sure if your aggression is a bluff or the nuts.

It's generally considered to be poor etiquette but it's not against the rules to ask to see someone's hand in this situation (in most casinos that I'm aware of). Yeah it's kind of douchey but...

You have to play by the rules. Don't get upset because this guy wants to see your hand. He's doing it to try to tilt you and because he's allowed to.

When he asks, show him your hand, show him that he's a donkey that got lucky, and move on to the next hand. If you're feeling particularly vindictive then I suppose you could ask to see every single one of his hands in those spots for the rest of the night.

+1...I don't mind showing in this instance to not lose any credibility, especially if Im bluffing more than usual in this session. I also do the opposite,....if I'm running unusually hot, then I will occasionally show a bluff

In our room all hands must be displayed as soon as there is an all-in and there is no one left to have action; the remaining board cards aren't flipped until the all-in hands are both displayed. Probably a good rule which basically prevents this garbage from happening.

The villain is definitely a douche for (a) demanding to see your cards and especially (b) grabbing your hand. One part of me wants to keep things friendly and just turn our cards over and move on and whatever (probably the best long term move). But, being a do-onto-others-as-you-would-have-them-do-onto-you-until-they-do-onto-you-and-then-do-onto-them-as-they-do kinda guy, I wouldn't have a problem fake slowrolling this guy the next time in the exact same situation with the winning hand (i.e. you: "You got there, nice hand", douche: "I wanna see your cards", you then flip you're winning hand and innocently "Wow, I misread my hand. Thanks for getting me to flip them up."). The former is probably the better way to go though.

GtryingnottotaptheglassG

LOL @ GG's idea (not saying it's bad, it's just funny)

This guy was just being a douche to everyone all night and his immediate demand to see my cards BEFORE the flop made me just want to irritate him and not do what he wanted and then hopefully ship the pot and flip when I expose my winning hand. It felt that would hurt him more.

There was definitely part of me that wanted to show him so he knew he'd sucked out, but at the same time the only thing that was important to me was that he did not get to see my hand because he desperately wanted to. I got up and cashed in the rest of my chips thereafter obviously, so image wasn't going to matter once things played out the way they did because I was way too tilted to continue.

By grabbing your hand villain technically committed assault. That is absolutely not allowed and should be enforced very strictly by the floor.

Villain comes off as a douche in this situation, without a doubt, but you don't really come off any better.

I understand I didn't look good either, and am not saying I'm not slightly at fault here. But I was really pissed off and kind of just wanted to see if others thought I had a legit reason to be upset.

It should be over in B&M, but there are approx. 12,456,209 threads on this subject over there (plus or minus). No sense in letting the OP get flamed over there.

In short.

Up until the 1930s, the standard published rules stated that you had to show your hand at show down no matter what. Yes, that meant even losing hands had to show what they had. Somewhere between WWII and the late 1950's, the standard rules got modified such that a losing hand at show down could concede the pot without showing. However, anyone who was dealt cards could demand to see them if they wanted to (IWTSTH).

In the last couple of years due to people like the OP who started playing poker in the post-Moneymaker era, rooms have modified the rules for cash games where people don't have the right to ask to see a mucked hand unless they wish to prove collusion. Note that for tournaments, you are required to show your hand as soon as the betting is completed.

TBH, you were both *******s. If the villain was any good, he knew what your range was and didn't need to see the hand. However, you held up the game stupidly because this would be a hand I'd be thrilled to show if I was running over the table. Making a big deal about this was bad play and bad etiquette. It shows you have a tilt leak you need to fix. You let a guy chase you off the table where you were the table captain. If there a good player at your table, you just showed him how to crush you the next time he sees you. Just show and move to the next hand.

having played in tons of live games over the years, I've found there are only 3 ways to do this, one of which sucks...

1. the player whose hand was "called" flips first, whether he has rubbish or quads...if he doesn't want to show his hand, he can muck and lose the pot...if he turns over his hand, and the other player cannot beat it, that player can muck, or can show a better hand and win the pot, whether he has the absolute nuts or whatever... this is by far the best way to do it, although it requires all players to be on board and somewhat cooperative...

2. the room can require both players to turn their hands up in any "all in" situations with no future action (like they do in tournaments)...this prevents slowrolls, both intentional and otherwise and any sort of conflict regarding the situation...this is not ideal, as a lot of people don't like to show their hands any more than neccessary...

3. the way OP did it, having some goofy standoff where one guy arbitrarily shows for no reason at all...this is the worst of the three, as it leads to situations like the OPs...

as a side note, in my experience, I used to ask to see hands that I called, even if I was certain I had the winner, just to get a better idea of my opponents play, however I found out very early that this is bad etiquette...this simple solution (and my suggestion to the OP) is that anytime you call someone, you wait for them to show...if they say "what do you got?" or whatever, you calmly and politely remind them that you called them (i just say "I called you") at which point they can show their cards, or muck... conversely, anytime you are called, you man up and show your hand first, unless you know it is a loser, then you can muck it... up to you

granted, if your cardroom has a specific rule governing this behavior, then everything I said is irrelevant, but in that case, this situation shouldn't have occurred to begin with...

asking to see a hand that was not the called hand and/or is a losing hand, is very poor etiquette and IMO should not be allowed...

I don't see what the big deal is for this particular hand anyway, you showed a premium hand, got sucked out, there's really not much to lose by showing here...

also, this situation has nothing to do with ethics...

This. The information is irrelevant most of the time anyway, and all this ends up doing is causing problems and wasting time. Show your hand or muck immediately so as to avoid a problem. I've always found it funny how the young internet crowd thinks they're entitled to see everyone else's hand but don't think they should ever have to show theirs.

lawl, in general. (i didn't read the OP in this case)

If ur gonna play casino NL you'll see a lot of bad etiquette/angle shooting etc. It's best to not let it tilt u. If he asks to see ur cards the dealer has to show him. Wait till u get slowrolled for a huge pot when someone has an unbeatable hand OTR.

tommy angelo's approach is the best. who cares what people do/say at the table. you should only be thinking about how you can use the things you observe to your advantage.

villain is in the wrong, but it's a pretty small pot for 1/2 tbh and the beat isn't that bad.

unlucky. don't leave the table.

If you can have those feelings about other players, and have them result in confrontational actions while maintaining your peace of mind, you don't need an attitude adjustment.

If your reaction disturbs your peace of mind, then I would adjust.