2/3 game. Bomb pot is for $15 each and its 8 way action. Effective stacks wont really matter in this hand, but I have like 1200 and main villain V1 has like 500 and is weak player, V2 is good reg and has me covered.

I dont like the bomb pots because the house rake is ridiculous on them and its more variance and greatly reduced edge for a winning player. I play them bc the fish like it and players that dont participate are looked on badly and wont get as much action.

On these bomb pots people mostly way overvalue hands as low as top pair or even bottom 2 and start stacking off insanely light. Ive incorrectly folded 2pair hands a couple times facing wild action and seen people win at showdown w a weak top pair and been flabbergasted.

Pot: ~$105 post rake
Hero on BTN has J7o no club

FLOPS:

J 7 3 rainbow
T 8 6 w 2 clubs

V1 in BB checks, V2 reg leads for 40, folds to hero who calls on BTN, V1 in BB calls.

TURNS:

J 7 3 A - rainbow completes

T 8 6 7 - offsuit 7, still just clubs from flop

V1 BB checks, V2 checks, Hero checks.

RIVERS:

J 7 3 A A

T 8 6 7 9 - no flush

V1 BB now leads slightly over pot size for $250. V2 folds, and hero ?

I thought for a minute and came to the conclusion that at best its a chop, so I'd be calling $250 to win about $70. I think there is legit 0 chance this particular villain is bluffing here. But this is a big bet like I have the nuts. If I'm against AJ im getting quartered, KJ quartered, QJ scoops.

So in my opinion it was a trivial fold really after just a little thinking. V1 asked what I had and then a couple other players got curious and started asking and I said J7. They started laughing saying I was full of ****, "no way you folded the nuts" hahaha. He said you gotta make it more believable than that, i said yea you right, you caught me off guard hahaha.

There is 225 in the pot, so if you call and chop, you are winning 112 compared to folding, not 70. You might actually win like 60 on the hand, but you lose 55 on the hand by folding.

I would call getting 1.9-1. At worst, you are quartered, which is not that big a loss. I believe you are only quartered by AJ and JJ. If you are quartered, you put in 250 and and get back 181, so you lose like 70. So you gain more if you chop than you lose if you are quartered.

I think river is a clear fold with your 2 pair counterfeited and the second nut straight.

The real question is whether we should play the flop fast and try to fold out the field with top 2 and a gutshot.

But how are we ever getting scooped? QJ gets half. Tell me one hand that scoops J7. I count only 2 hands that get 3/4.

He could be like this with QJ, AA, or maybe 77 or A7 to fold out a chop.

As of the flop, we can get scooped on bad runouts albeit it wouldn’t be terribly likely. Overpairs can scoop if counterfeiting cards come. Someone can turn a set, etc.

Multi-way we can get scooped unimproved.

That’s my point. J7 on J73 isn’t a lock but it’s pretty strong and likely to hold if we protect (presuming we aren’t coolered by 33). So perhaps sticking in a big raise OTF to fold out the field or at least get heads up would be better.

I don't think I can fold here. I also like a raise on the flop on the BTN or at least bet the turn.

QJ scoops.

AJ 3/4
KJ 3/4
JJ 3/4
JT 3/4
J9 3/4
J8 3/4

Eg. on:

J 7 3 A A - J8 has AAJJ8 H has AAJJ7 - V wins

T 8 6 7 9 - J8 and J7 both have 2nd nuts - We chop.


...to be fair I'd have thought JJ/J9/AJ would have put more in before the river (but they might have been planning a x/r on turn, so maybe only discount JJ), but then I probably would have with J7.


Also V overcalled flop, how many worse Jx hands do you think he has? We 3/4 J3 and J6 which are kind of plausible.
Our only real hope is he has A7 or maybe AT.

Jam that flop all day.

Edit, i was thinking 500 deep. I guess make a raise to like $200

My math was a little off thank you.

Thank you guys. I think i like fatman and tomark suggestion of playing more aggressively on flop and putting in a little raise. At the time I was afraid of raising and getting blown off a chop by the V2 who im very deep with and who led out because his flop lead was a bit troubling since he's a good player.

V2 actually did have the flopped straight when he led out. I guess he was also worried about being deep with me and probably concerned he was going to be quartered or maybe that I had J9 once the 4 straight hit the turn and thats why he checked.

Note that J7 vs. 97 on:

B1: J73 rainbow
B2: T86 tt

...J7 is way ahead.
Yes, you only have 15% on B2 but you have 97.5% on B1. You really need to be vs. a set on B1 to be behind, and even then you are still doing pretty well on B2 (20% vs. JJ).
You are slightly behind Jc9c over both boards, and roughly even vs. J9 in general.

So, did you call or fold?

"I dont like the bomb pots because the house rake is ridiculous on them and its more variance and greatly reduced edge for a winning player. I play them bc the fish like it and players that dont participate are looked on badly and wont get as much action. "
Most places if one player objects, they don't happen. You're their opponent, not their buddy. Play how you want. You can always just get up and go get a coffee, etc. I've never seen a skilled player who wants to do a bomb pot.