Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Donking for profit Donking for profit

12-24-2012 , 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AintNoLimit
I do not mean this personal, but this is a nice peak into how weak/fishy/limp calling players think.

Its terrible from A to Z. And i say that just as a fact, and not trying to rub you wrong in any way.
This.

Limp/call pre + donk here screams I HAS A KING! Especially if you have no balance in your game. How often do you see a donk bet bluff in LLSNL from a limp/caller?

Dominic wins the thread for what I would do on the flop - check/call.
Donking for profit Quote
12-28-2012 , 12:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrChesspain
I have no idea what any of this means, in part because I don't understand the phrase "back your game off."
I build up a stack by playing aggressively and then switch to a fit or fold strategy, which quickly becomes transparent and exploitable. The adjustment I have to make to that exploitation is not optimal. So I just wind up making less and less money over time.

With regard to balance, that's an excellent point and maybe it's the whole thing.

KQo is a very marginal opening hand for me UTG but I like playing small pp in early position and its the same exact thing, it doesn't take long to figure out the limp-call-donk line. I mix it up with JJ and TT, sometimes limp and sometimes open raise. However I think I need to open raise small pp more often, cuz I never limp QQ+ here.
Donking for profit Quote
12-28-2012 , 08:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrChesspain
I have no idea what any of this means, in part because I don't understand the phrase "back your game off."

If you want to win big with your big hands, (vs other than droolers), you have to be betting big with a wide range of hands overall. Thsi gives the balance and uncertainty to others thus they are confused as to whether you have the goods or not.

This confusion leads to profits. You start limping everything except your very large hands (safe/secure hands) then your game becomes transparent even to fish.

Work to "up your game" and get it working on a more aggro level, rather than "back off your game" and get it to a nitty safe secure gameplan which everyone knows cannot win large sums of money / hour.
Donking for profit Quote
12-28-2012 , 08:39 AM
Kq not the same as small pocket pairs. Small pockets make monsters that you can value bet a lot. With kq you rarely have a top notch hand.
Donking for profit Quote
12-28-2012 , 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbqDave
I build up a stack by playing aggressively and then switch to a fit or fold strategy, which quickly becomes transparent and exploitable. The adjustment I have to make to that exploitation is not optimal. So I just wind up making less and less money over time.

With regard to balance, that's an excellent point and maybe it's the whole thing.

KQo is a very marginal opening hand for me UTG but I like playing small pp in early position and its the same exact thing, it doesn't take long to figure out the limp-call-donk line. I mix it up with JJ and TT, sometimes limp and sometimes open raise. However I think I need to open raise small pp more often, cuz I never limp QQ+ here.
I think you're worrying far too much about being exploited. It's a tough lesson I had to learn. Most of them are incapable of exploiting you so don't worry about it until it starts happening.
Donking for profit Quote
12-28-2012 , 11:12 AM
Trust me Villain's range is so wide here, he might even call u with A7o on that flop..This is 1/2 dont forget..
Donking for profit Quote
12-28-2012 , 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_blue

If you not comfortable ranging your opponents and gettign reads, then play tight oop, Pick hands that can flop big (pairs do this well), and avoid many of the hands that have reverse implied, like well KQ. Also raise (I personally always raise first or second in, except in very rare situations)...it limits down there range so you no longer have to play against a whole range. I raise smaller first in from btn and somtimes co, because I want the blinds to call OOP.

Bye raising first or 2nd in you have a much better chance of playing in position, don't make plays that have almost no chance of playing in position. Don't make plays that are likely to have you playing OOP unless you have a soled plan for how you will play oop.

When I donk its because I think my opponent will not cbet enough but will call with a wide range. Thats why I donk a made hand, not to find out where I'm at type nonsense, sure against most 1-2 I expect that if they raise big they have me crushed, its a nice plus. But against a player who bets too much with too weak a range, why would I now tell him I have a good hand. Against one who calls too much, and does not bet enough...now donking makes sense.

If you read post from players who under rep there hands and then don't know what to do...well the point is they don't have a good read on there opponents or more likely they are just not comfortable following these reads.
This is gold here. OP - start to think along these lines. Yes, it is ok to lead on the flop... when you have a good reason (passive call station opponent). Yes, it is sometimes better to check-call (when villain is aggro). Yes, sometimes it is correct to check-raise here (against a Villain who will always and only single-barrel). The point is, predict your opponents range and actions - you won't always be right, but working on a theory based on limited information is better than not working with a theory at all. At least you will have an exact plan for how to continue against the different paths the villain could take.

Also, in this hand. Bet-fold on the turn here. If called, bet-fold on a safe river again. I can't figure AK in this guys hands, so you have the one-pair "nuts". Any two-pair should raise you at some point.
Donking for profit Quote

      
m