Do you just flat or put villain all in for 70$ more in this spot with the 2nd nuts? - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

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Do you just flat or put villain all in for 70$ more in this spot with the 2nd nuts?

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09-03-2019 , 08:41 PM

Phraust

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 349

Sorry can't remember action completely so this may be hard to judge.

Preflop LP raise, btn calls, hero defends bb with KThh

Flop J67hh
Hero checks, pfr bets half pot, btn calls hero calls

Turn Tc
Action checks through

River 2h
Hero bets $90 (about 2/3rd pot), pfr raise to $200 with $70 behind, btn folds

No real reads on villain. Seems like an average player. Maybe hes doing this with QhXh? With the 2nd nuts do we just flat? He shouldnt have any bluffs here but if he has a worse flush we lose a little value.

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09-03-2019 , 09:04 PM

jpsychlady

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2,588

Ship it. There are alot of worse hands he can have

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09-03-2019 , 10:05 PM

donkatruck

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,911

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpsychlady

Ship it. There are alot of worse hands he can have

Such as?

QJhh is the only one I can think of (and that assumes the J on the flop was not Jh.

Is any V anywhere raising an amount that can't be a r/f with a straight? At best it's 3rd nut flush.

I'm not saying fold, but why ship when we are likely less than 50%. We are only calling due to dead money in the pot and its $110 to win like $475ish.

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09-03-2019 , 10:25 PM

Phraust

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 349

Quote:

Originally Posted by donkatruck

Sorry the Jh was on the board I should have specified that. So yeah that narrows his flush hands a lot

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09-03-2019 , 11:04 PM

jpsychlady

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2,588

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phraust

Sorry the Jh was on the board I should have specified that. So yeah that narrows his flush hands a lot

Okay. I assumed the hearts were the 67 the way it was presented.

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09-03-2019 , 11:10 PM

donkatruck

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,911

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phraust

Sorry the Jh was on the board I should have specified that. So yeah that narrows his flush hands a lot

That almost makes the call iffy. I still call 100% of the time, but like my chances less.

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09-04-2019 , 12:02 AM

jdr0317

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

I get the general gist of it. I’d just call. It’s unlikely he’s getting fancy on the turn with like TT or 98s, so his raise actually looks a lot like the nuts. There’s a lot of A hi flush combos and there’s no reason why he can’t have all of them.

This misses value from hands like 9hXh, but these hands may have barreled turn anyway

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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09-04-2019 , 01:06 AM

Phraust

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 349

I ended up just jamming and he snap calls with A3hh. Figured if he had it, he had it. Stupid thinking but now I know better. Got greedy.

Looking back I think with his raise size it's almost saying "I have the nuts and really want more money out of this so here's basically a min raise.. I don't want to go all in because I really want you to call and you might not if I shove" At first I was thinking maybe he had a smaller flush and didn't want to risk everything, but with us blocking most flush hands and Jh being on the board AND him being the PFR.. idk what flushes he could have here that he's doing this with that we beat.

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09-04-2019 , 11:37 AM

gobbledygeek

Poet Laureate of LLSNL

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 36,150

You'll get better responses if you list stack sizes, raise sizes and post pot sizes on each street.

Without knowing all that, it's hard to make precise comments.

I would recommend completely removing "defends bb" from your playbook at a full table.

River raises in multiway pots are ~nuttish (not than you can likely fold the second nuts, but just sayin').

GcluelessNLnoobG

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09-04-2019 , 12:50 PM

#10

jpsychlady

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2,588

Is this hh the same as it was last night?

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09-04-2019 , 01:21 PM

#11

jtm1208

adept

Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 780

Yea, I'd just flat here as nitty as it sounds. Probably at least half the time he has the nut flush, if not more. No need to put the extra extra $90 in to win $90 when it's likely that you are winning this pot half the time or less.

Definitely not folding though, odds to good to call.

I'd probably consider a check raise on the flop here with an over, flush draw and backdoor straight draw. Can be tough to realize equity in this hand playing OOP, but taking control can sometimes just win the pot for you without needing to see turn or river.

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09-04-2019 , 01:27 PM

#12

mdelore

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,315

Just flat the river raise. I also like a x/r on the flop and jam a lot of turns.

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09-04-2019 , 08:44 PM

#13

WereBeer

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10,700

I flat this raise because they always have it.

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09-04-2019 , 11:53 PM

#14

Phraust

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 349

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdelore

Just flat the river raise. I also like a x/r on the flop and jam a lot of turns.

Yeah that was my plan on the turn. Actually extremely surprised BTN didnt bet because when he folded he showed the nut straight. Then he flipped out on me for betting because villain snap call tabled his hand so I didnt have to. He literally flipped out saying he knew I had nothing, nice hand to the other guy, take all his chips, freaked out got his chips and left. He thought I bluffed all in when villain had $70 behind lol.

Doesnt surprise me though because he called a $100 3bet by me with 75dd a few hands prior to this. So I guess he thought everytime I bet that I was full of it.

Kind of surprised the dealer didnt tell him he needs to relax and stop.

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09-05-2019 , 10:13 AM

#15

mdelore

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,315

Not a huge fan of x/r turn since we now have showdown value and the draw to go with it. The time to x/r is the flop imo.

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09-05-2019 , 11:20 AM

#16

gobbledygeek

Poet Laureate of LLSNL

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 36,150

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phraust

If you're looking to build up an image as someone who can make moves for big $$$ in big pots multiway on later streets (when the reality is likely that you never do), this is a perfect opportunity to capitalize on this. Just smile and laugh and shrug and say "sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't!", and tap the table and say "nice call, you got me". (ETA: Realize that doesn't make a heckuva lotta sense since we did call the raise so we obviously have something, but it can still indicate a confused mental state / overvalueing a very weak hand / etc.).

GcluelessNLnoobG

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