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Do you have a donking range? Do you have a donking range?

11-26-2023 , 02:28 AM
Wondering if anyone donks here ever? What that range would look like and under what circumstances. I don't ever really donk but I'm wondering if incorporating it into my game would up my winrate.
Do you have a donking range? Quote
11-26-2023 , 03:37 AM
there's a few situations where i like donking

first is decide if villain is a thinking player or not - this dramatically alters the landscape under which i'd donk

it can be good when you want to build a pot and you think it would get checked through otherwise

or when i want to put out a blocking bet

as a bluff against certain thinking players it can look really strong

as a value bet against some mouth breathers who don't realize how strong it can look to lead the lead and donk bet oop
Do you have a donking range? Quote
11-26-2023 , 04:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupidbanana
Wondering if anyone donks here ever? What that range would look like and under what circumstances. I don't ever really donk but I'm wondering if incorporating it into my game would up my winrate.
In situations where you have a range advantage and nut advantage as OOP.

The most common spot that's pretty well known by now are BB defense in SRPs any board that contains 3 cards 7 and lower.

The most extreme in 6 max is where UTG opens and BB calls and flop is
7 6 5r. The BB should be donking for 1/3 pot with their entire range.

In a button vs BB spot it's less extreme, but still donking 50-60%.

The reason the UTG situation is much worse for IP is because they only have a very small portion of the nut straight, none of the other straights, basically no two pairs and only two of the sets whereas the BB can have all of these plus all the draws and combo draws that IP doesn't have.

So in any spot where you can identify these types of imbalances are where you could employ such a strategy.

And conversely as IP you should be checking back these types of boards quite often unless villain is clueless and just playing their two cards.

Another scenario is turn probes where villain has a really weak check back range on the flop. Vs some people it's profitable to stab ATC if they check to you.
Do you have a donking range? Quote
11-26-2023 , 07:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic
In situations where you have a range advantage and nut advantage as OOP.

The most common spot that's pretty well known by now are BB defense in SRPs any board that contains 3 cards 7 and lower.
Just for clarification I think we have different definitions of nut advantage vs range advantage.

IME in your example BB has a nut advantage but not a range advantage. He has sets, 2pair combos etc = nut advantage while IP has TT-AA, AK, etc ie.. range advantage.
Do you have a donking range? Quote
11-26-2023 , 07:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic
The most extreme in 6 max is where UTG opens and BB calls and flop is
7 6 5r. The BB should be donking for 1/3 pot with their entire range.
Does it matter if UTG opens for 2x or 7x and if the effective stack is 40BB or 400BB?
Do you have a donking range? Quote
11-26-2023 , 09:40 AM
Sure, but it is generally in pretty extreme circumstances and specific spots. Out of BB on low very connected boards in single raised pots, sometimes on mid connected boards in 3bet pots as the caller. On turn when middle card pairs and occasionally when top card pairs. On some turns and rivers where the board double pairs.

Sometimes, but rarely when I just have a read or exploit I think will work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupidbanana
Just for clarification I think we have different definitions of nut advantage vs range advantage.

IME in your example BB has a nut advantage but not a range advantage. He has sets, 2pair combos etc = nut advantage while IP has TT-AA, AK, etc ie.. range advantage.
On low boards doesn't give a range advantage. On low connected boards generally BB is described as having the range advantage vs EP-MP opens, although they typically do have a nut advantage too. BB should have more 2 pair, sets, straights, but also more pairs with wider KX, QX, JX, TX, etc type hands while the IP player has more whiffed high cards.

Last edited by Mlark; 11-26-2023 at 09:47 AM.
Do you have a donking range? Quote
11-26-2023 , 10:02 AM
This is what range advantage looks like for BB vs UTG in 6 max:

This is what it looks like for UTG vs BB in 6max:

Do you have a donking range? Quote
11-26-2023 , 11:53 AM
I only play live cash, low stakes (1/3), typically 8 or 9 handed.

I very rarely donk flops, but will in extreme situations. The reason I don't typically donk is that most of my opponents c-bet at a much higher rate, at least on most flops. The flops I'll donk are the ones they'll c-bet less often. I'll sometimes donk if I flop a set on a two-tone, monotone or three-straight board, or if I flop trips or a pair on a paired board.

I'll sometimes check-call flops against weaker or overly aggro opponents, then donk turn or river on a nut-changing card, if it's credible that I have the hand I'm repping, or if I caught a miracle card to make me a very strong or well-disguised hand, in situations where my opponents are going to be doing a lot of checking-back.

I see a lot of flop donks from opponents, and they're usually bad recs. They tend to donk when they flop a weak top pair or a good draw. Because they're playing so face-up, it's pretty easy to punish them, which is why I only donk flops when I actually have a hand that can continue to a raise. It's a lot harder to defend against a turn or river donk on a nut-changing card.
Do you have a donking range? Quote
03-03-2024 , 03:56 AM
IMHO, donk betting is a good option sometimes. It's also a very rarely used tool in most people's toolboxes. I personally have a hard time using the flop donkbet as much as I should, and I am trying to use it more often going forward.

For example, I recently saw a crusher in my local player pool take a flop donkbet --> large turn bet --> very large river shove line in a really interesting spot.

5/5/10/20 with bounty: Reg opened 65 EP, Tilted reg fish flatted MP, tilted loose passive fish called in 1st 5, crusher called in the 10 with the bounty button, 20 folded.

4-ways Flop ($275): Th7x5h. Tilted loose passive fish checked. Crusher donked?!?!?! $200, EP PFR folds, MP called, SB folded.

Heads-up Turn ($675): Qx. Crusher bets $550. MP calls.

Heads-Up River ($1775): 5x. Crusher shoves 1.4k effective. MP tanks forever and then calls. Crusher shows KT offsuit and wins.

Sidenote: Crusher was drinking at the table and was in super LAG mode this session. And he had the bounty button, so he ended up collecting $25 from each other player at the table when he won this pot. So the meta game here is quite interesting.
Do you have a donking range? Quote
03-04-2024 , 02:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mlark
On turn when middle card pairs and occasionally when top card pairs.
+1 for this, awesome play. Have made a lot off it
Do you have a donking range? Quote
03-04-2024 , 02:24 PM
Depends on villain(s) and board, really, but I do have one.
Do you have a donking range? Quote

      
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