1/3 effective stack $1000

3 limpers, you raise to $30 with KhJh in sb

2 really loose limpers call.

flop Ks3h5s two spades. you bet $25, one limper raises to $50 you call

turn 2h you c/c $75

river Jc. you check he bets $250.

i have not seen villain take this flop raise/turn bet/ river bomb line as a bluff before.

I call. Plenty of busted draws here. You could have counterfeited his 2p. Against a nit I would have probably folded earlier but loose players I think its a call.

You said really loose so are we looking at AA-6 AK-12? 33-3, 55-3, K5s-2, K3s-2, 35s-2, 46s-4, kJdd-1 A4ss-1 AsXs without the 4 or K- 7

Is all this in his range preflop?

You beat AA-6(discount for limping) AK-12(discount for limping) K5s-2, K3s-2, 35s-2 AsXs-7(discount for never seeing a bluff)

Lose to 33-3, 55-3, As4s-1, 46s-4

Tie KJdd

Anything else is probably KJo or smaller flush draws.



$310 in the pot $250 to call. Without punching a calculator you probably have to be good around 3/10 to break even. Tell us more about what youve seen in his limp call huge preflp raises range.

he is def capable of having K5s, K3s, 53 here. not sure about the offsuit varieties though. his vpip is like 60% or more.

Snap call, you beat lots of value and it looks like you have 1 pair.

That gets you to 6 combos you beat of value and 11 you lose to. Even without him ever bluffing or ever having AA or AK it looks like a call. And I think you have to give him at least one or two combos of those as well. You are probably good 4/10 or 5/10

Then it is a very clear call.

I would just see a flop preflop.

I might bet the flop a tad bigger against these guys but whatever. And I might just make a very exploitable fold to the flop minraise versus a guy that doesn't bluff (especially if he is raising with the other guy behind still to react).

And I fold the turn. One of the draws got there and he could still just be clobbering us with whatever piece of cheese he choose to see a flop with.

And I might even make a exploitable check/fold on the river two. If he's in any way passive, I've seen a lot of players check back small two pear here. And if he's not bluffy, then he doesn't have a busted flush draw. Which kinda just leaves monsters.

But I see monsters real easy in my game (mainly because they're real).

GcluelessNLnoobG

"Loose" in itself doesn't do a very good job of describing how these guys play postflop. All it does it indicate they could have a wide range of hands preflop, which means every two pair is in play.

However, a lot of "loose" players can also be extremely MUBSy, and are just happy enough to win the pot with their bottom/middling two pear on the river instead of exposing large stacks for a big $250 bet. Course, this also depends on how comfortable they are playing deep / how deep the game plays in general (for example, I my game I almost never see 3 players in a pot $1000+ deep).

GcluelessgameconditionsnoobG

With $265 in the pot, $75 to call, folding KhJh on a Ks3h5s2h board is an egregiously terrible play.

Oops, I missed the fact that we picked up a flush draw on the turn; fair enough.

GcluelessHHreadingnoobG

GG i never said he doesn't bluff. he just hasnt taken this particular line as a bluff.

and dude if you're gonna give advice at least read the post carefully otherwise its obviously -EV advice.

and im never folding top pair to a flop minraise on a board that as a flush draw in it. i dont recommend anyone do that unless your opponent is a 90 year old man. even then its probably bad.

just completing pre also seems like a pretty big leak, not only letting the big blind see a flop for free but also missing value when you are way ahead of limpers' ranges.

results: i lost to As4s. maybe im being results oriented but im given that i block Kx hands that have worse two pair i think i made a mistake calling.

I would assume it's much better to unblock spades/3x than it is bad to block worse 2 pair.
We can call correctly and still lose sometimes, As4s is one of the few bluff combos. on the flop that got there and if he has 64s then he probably has 53s/32s.

Yea I call. No way I'm folding kings-up for less than 1/3rd pot. Spades missed. He has as much or more 2p as sets.

You only weakly block 2p and only KX 2p.. there's people with 53s here. 53o if he's a drooler. Now if you hadn't hit the J OTR we could talk folding. You're simply to high in your range.

I mean, you said it yourself. He can have K5, K3, 53. Do you really mean he can have those on the river given the action? Then you can't fold. If you are second guessing your assumption that he can have those hands, if you think he won't go for it using that size on the river, then okay. But if you truly range him on this, then your hand is a winning call vs his value range, not even considering his bluffs. Even if you are losing more than 50% of the time. Only have to be good roughly 3 out of 10 times here. Throw in bluffs and this is a slam dunk call.

You're missing the mark a bit when you day you are blocking worse two pair hands he could have. There are 6 suited two pair combos he can have on the flop given you have the Kh if you give him all the two pairs, so there are still plenty you beat. Your hand is still going to be one of the better bluff catchers you will have on the river.

Even if you take away the two pair combos, I think our hand is still a pretty good bluff catcher. I would rather have your hand than AA or AK with the As. Even if they are in theory supposed to give up with the As some on rivers and fire bluffs that unblock nut spades, live players tend to bluff nut spades anyways if they are finding bluffs on the river. Blocking one value combo of As4s but blocking way more bluffs of AsXs is bad.

AA or AK with no As would be a good bluff catching candidates too. With the small flop raise, I think he could have A4s of more than just spades, so having a non spade A can be a good blocker, blocking 1 value combo and not blocking any bluffs.

I think KQ, KTs is more starting to approach indifference territory. KQo with Qs I could see folding more. Others might be mixed, or you might lean more towards exploitative play and just try to figure if villain is overbluffing hands like missed spades.

You can generally get a good idea of what skill range or bracket a player falls under from a handful of pots you observe or play with them. Did he seem like a recreational player? I can't see the average low stakes player bluffing like this here on the river. The line might seem weak on the flop and turn, but the river screams strength.

FWIW, if I've mathed right (and OP should have done this for us), we're facing a 3/4 PSB on the river (it's $250 into $340).

Gthisisnotasmallbet,bothintermsofpotandintermsof$$ $G