1/2 NL - Tampa Hard Rock - 8 handed

BTN Straddle to $5

BB calls 5
UTG call 5

Hero (HJ) raises to $20 with red 10's

BTN, BB, and UTG call

Flop 6c7c2s

BB ($210 ish) leads for $20
UTG ($70) calls

Hero (covers ) raises to $100

BTN folds

BB calls with $110 behind

UTG folds,

Turn 3c (or some small club)

BB goes all in for $110

_____________________

Ok - the results here are irelvant but I hope they are not effecting my analysis. I feel like I made a mistake with my flop raise. Raising here is my default play to a weak lead and a call, but making it $100 and is giving us both odds on the turn. But If I just shove flop, that's risking a lot to win a little. So maybe I could have accomplished the same thing with a smaller raise, or even a call and wait for safe turn to keep the pot small, but I hate doing that and let everyone draw.

On the turn, now I'm getting like 3-1? But how do I know if I'm good 30% of the time? I don't beat much besides like A7 with the A of clubs? But it's also hard to fold with so much out there.

So do you all think I am correct in my analysis? What do you normally do in these bloated multiway spots like this?

No. Now fold to the shove on the turn.

You did not overplay this hand. There is $80 in the pot on the flop and the biggest stack is $210. That's an SPR of about 2.5. At this stack depth, you should happily stack off with an overpair on a wet flop. What was BTN's stack? If you are going to raise big on the flop, you could probably just jam unless you are deep with BTN. There's $120 in the pot by the time it gets to you, so it's not a particularly big jam.

Turn is a weird spot. BB jams $110 into a pot of $300 ($80 from pre-flop, $220 from flop). In your post, you said you are getting 3-to-1 and need to be good 30% of the time. This is incorrect. You have to call $110 to win $410, so you are actually getting 4-to-1. For these pot odds, you need to be good 21% of the time for this to be a winning call.

I would probably sigh call here and expect to be ahead of a hand like 8c8x or 5c5x enough. Maybe that's a mistake, but it's hard to know without any reads. I'm sure some people play flushes like this (donk/call flop, donk jam turn when you get there) but it's kind of a weird line to take.

Edit: You should raise bigger pre-flop too

Was not expecting these replies. Yes I would say this was an overplay. You're 4 ways to a wet low flop that limp callers love. Depends on depths but I'm not stacking off here. I probably just call the donk and see what BTN does and what turn is. Theres hardly any good turn cards for you though.

Raise more pre

There's just not that much we're losing to on the flop. There's 12 combos of hands that beat Hero here. 3 combos each of the sets and 3 combos of 76s. How many combos are we ahead of? It's hard to know, but there is a lot of 7x. 4 combos each of A7s, 97s, 87s is 12 and then maybe some K7s or 75s or A7o. There's 88 and 99 maybe. And then there's the open-enders (89s and 45s is 8 combos) and the flush draws (many combos). If either V has 76o there's even more garbage we are ahead of.

I would argue we can even start to discount some sets. How often do you see a fish limp-call with 77 and then donk with top set for quarter pot? I would expect a large donk or a checkraise from a set a lot of the time.

Why not pile the money in against these short stacks now? As you said, there aren't many good turn cards, so let's get the money in now.

As I mentioned in my post though, things change if we are deep with the BTN.

The BTN had me covered.

Lol in the OP it says you cover now its button? The whole thing depends on depths. You have 2k and he has 3k? lol we're flying blind itt.

Thought experiment: lets ignore btn for now since we know nothing about him. If BB had led 70 and UTG called AI are you stacking off with BB?

This was my first thought also, but the flop lead and the call were both weak. There are plenty of draws or 7x type hands that make or call such a bet. It's not enough to look like 2pair+ trying to charge draws. I think jamming is reasonable.

As played I think the turn is fold, despite the good odds.

That's a closer spot to me for sure. BB looks strong for that size into three people and with $140 back he is never folding. UTG is less capped and probably has to have a stronger range calling All-in vs calling $20. Maybe I could get behind a fold there but I still think stacking off is good for the reasons I stated in my above post (not that many good hands available to Villains, very low SPR). Reads would make a difference too. I can definitely think of some players in my room that I would an overpair to if they donked for full pot into three people, even at this SPR.

There's no over-stating how much I hate the button straddle.

Agree with others that you should raise bigger pre here. You're OOP against the BTN who already has $5 in the pot, and will be getting 2 to 1 pot odds to call and play the rest of the hand IP. Make your raise at least $30, if not $35.

I like the flop raise. Size seems okay, maybe a tad big, since it'll be hard to fold if BB jams over top. I might just make it 3x, $60, and fold if he 3B jams.

AP, easy fold to BB's turn jam. We beat nothing here.

you need to make it more pre. These straddled pots are kinda tough because it makes you 40bb and a lot of other short stacks with 15bb or less. So it is essentially tournament style amount of blinds with no Ante.

Pre I would of probably gone $30 - and possibly folded to a 3b, but usually not - depends who does it though, these low stakes games are pretty easy to navigate through.

Already $120 or 24bb in the pot and you started with 40bb so the only raise that makes sense is all in.

As played it's a fold on that turn. Bad turn card.

Pre - at least $25 given the dead cash.

Call flop which favors field callers (range). Your hand is vulnerable, not a good enough reason to bloat pot, maybe even behind.

Fold turn ... not many hands you're beating given BB line and runout.

I like the flop raise. Now fold turn.

Unfortunately, UTG limped in with black QQ. Which is kinda common especially in straddle pots. But they are also limping with way worse, so sometimes they just get you with their passive play.

Like I said, I hate the BTN straddle.

Did he at least have the Qc in his hand?

Yes, black QQ.

So if we are making it bigger like $30 + in these straddle pots, then should we be tighening our range quite a bit? Like mostly just premiums and limp the decent hands like KQ? AJ, 99 etc? Most people just call $5 with everything and are afraid to bloat the pot.

Geezus I hate myself sometimes. Not as much as I hate BTN straddles, but still...

Forgive me for overlooking that detail.

I think theory says we should be tightening our range any time there's a straddle on, because it effectively halves the stack depths.

If we're tightening our range, I'd think theory would say we could go bigger, but I'm not sure if that's correct if the reason for tightening is because of the straddle. I think if we went from 200bb effective to 100bb, we wouldn't be raising larger necessarily.

The button straddle is a crime against humanity, with how it warps the game dynamics. People who would never limp in EP with no BTN straddle suddenly have some weird EP limp-flatting range with a BTN straddle, like your boy here with QQ in the BB - what the serious f**k?

I haven't played in a BTN straddle game in a while. The last time I did, the straddle could be put on from anywhere, with priority given to whomever had the earlier position. So whenever anyone tried to put the BTN straddle on, I'd be like, "nah. Eff you. That effs up the game. I'll straddle from here."

But even doing that sucks. I don't want to straddle from MP just to screw the guy on the BTN, because I'm still screwing up the game, albeit not as much as that other guy on the BTN.

In a game with a mandatory BTN straddle, I don't know. I guess we need to have a different pre-flop strat, with more open-limps and over-limps and stronger opening raises from all positions, which, again, kind of screws up the game.

Like, if you over-limped here, is the BB just going broke with QQ on any run-out? Are you supposed to just over-call with TT on this flop? Is 76 or 54 in your HJ opening range pre, or your over-limping range?

This is why I think we should raise bigger when the BTN straddle is on, because people will limp-flat with weird hands that we wouldn't expect them to have in a normal pre-flop set-up.

Say we open to 30, BTN might call, but will be folding more. BB might call, but will be raising more. UTG should be folding if BB 3B's, and still folding more than over-calling your larger size.

We'll be more likely to get heads-up and IP against the blinds if we raise bigger, with better defined ranges, and easier post-flop decisions.