Good points I hadn’t considered

Lj range is very strong, at best maybe he has 88/99 and folds those to jam. Can jam fold out jj/qq? Or AK?

Prefer call.

sometimes you just gotta light $515 on fire
and sometimes you just gotta light $1,100,000 on fire too

LJ cold calling the cold 4bet jam w/ people left to act seems strong.

Depends the kind of player they are though. A lot of weaker players will indeed have something like 88/99 here while shoving their QQ+ rather than folding the former and flatting AA.

I think given the price you can just call and see a flop in position. There's not much to gain by jamming as you will have to win at show down regardless vs at least one hand.

You have to evaluate this on a player by player basis. Does villain have a limping range? Are all their hands opened to $15? How wide does villain call the 4bet here? What do they do with QQ+, AKo, AJs, etc?

If villain is going to have hands like KQs, AJs, etc and is going to fold the a jam, then jamming is probably okay.

Also keep in mind some players will call off with smaller pocket pairs here too. Either way I wouldn't beat myself up too much.

You easily have odds to set mine. If you call, it may get checked down. Calling is annoying, but the best play.

Yea so it was a bad play because the type of hand I thought I could get to fold called.

This situation could be improved with some live reads on LJ and a reliable understanding of our own table image. We could play differently (exploitatively) based on whether or not LJ is playing tighter/looser and more aggro or more passive, and whether or not our image would suggest our hand is stronger than TT.

If you're playing exploitatively, based on your reads and table image, I could see V folding JJ here a lot, though that's probably the strongest hand he'd ever fold, and at 1/3, some V's are just going with TT+ or JJ+, especially if they're super-deep stacked and running good, or if they just feel like gambling.

Sometimes a big stack will find a nitty fold, rather than risk losing some of their profits on the session, especially if they're planning to rack up soon. Your 3B range from CO over a LJ open could be wide, but your 5B range should look very strong, so it's not unreasonable to think LJ might fold JJ, fearing you've got QQ+.

The logical problem with jamming TT is that you're probably never ahead when called. At best, you might be flipping against two overs. He could call with JJ if he thinks you're 5B'ing AK.

There's probably a GTO answer for whether or not your play was correct or not, regardless of those reads or the results, but I don't know what GTO would suggest here. I would think flat-calling is the theoretically correct play.

Whether we're playing GTO or exploitatively, we shouldn't judge the play by the results. If he folds JJ here more often, it was a good play. If he calls with JJ here more often, it was a bad play. The fact that he called with a better hand this time shouldn't stop us from making the play if it's going to get him to fold JJ more often than not.

All great points. I was taking an exploitative line. I don’t think any GTO would cold 5bet TT but I never have studied or looked at that spot. I highly doubt I will ever be in this situation again. If I did not discount BB 4bet range I wouldn’t have jammed I would’ve folded honestly.

So, if I understood your OP correctly, LJ opened, and you 3B, which would mean your 5B wasn't "cold" - cold meaning you hadn't voluntarily put money into the pot.

In my post above I said JJ would be the strongest hand V would fold. Thinking about it more, I'm not sure that's true.

I've been in similar spots, and found a fold with QQ when my 3B got 4B. At least once, another player told me he'd have folded KK in my spot, when I opened, got 3B, I 4B, and V 5B jammed. So it is possible for V to fold JJ there, when you 5B, I think.

But, in the QQ example, my choices were 4B/fold or call and jam any flop that didn't have an A or K. In the KK example, a 5B jam at 1/3 is rarely worse than AK, and is most often AA. The player who told me he'd have folded KK added "against HIM", as he knew how V played, and that he wouldn't be 5B jamming anything but AA.

Here, as you said, you were basically turning TT into a bluff when you 5B jammed, which isn't likely to fold too many better hands in LJ's range when he opens and then calls a 4B jam from the BB.

He's probably folding all the small-middling pairs and suited connectors (which is why I said you might be in good shape to jam after he just flat called the BB jam), and might ONLY be folding out JJ, maybe QQ, and very rarely KK. But if LJ calls, you can be pretty sure he's not calling with 99, or worse than AK.

That you for explaining the cold terminology. I always thought it meant it was a strong bet lol didn’t realize that was the actual definition of a cold bet.


I think it was an ambitious line by me that was ultimately negative EV. As a consolation, I was proud that I found the gumption to shove as a bluff. My default mode is honestly pretty nitty. It has taken me a lot of time to start feeling comfortable bluffing. Overall I think I play a TAG style but I become much more passive on later streets or dynamics I often feel lost in (especially 3-bet and 4bet pots especially when I am OOP).

No worries.

It was an ambitious line. Like I said, it helps to have some reads informing our actions. We've all been in similar spots, jamming with TT and getting snapped off by JJ, or jamming JJ and getting snapped by TT.

At 1/3 and around $500 deep, facing a 4B, I'm willing to let TT-JJ go. It gets much harder to decide what to do with QQ-KK. There may not be any shame in going broke with those hands, but there's certainly no glory in it, either.