[LOW] Did I light $515 on fire here? - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

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[LOW] Did I light $515 on fire here?

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02-09-2024 , 09:10 AM

$tack$Poker

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2024 Posts: 128

Playing live $1/3 cash
Game 6-handed
Hero in CO $515 effective
Hand: TdTh

Action: LJ $15, hero 3-bets, $45, BTN calls. BB jams $110. LJ calls. I jam $515, BTN folds, LJ call.

Live read: BB was jamming lighter than typical cold 4-bet range. He gave a genuine shrug and sigh and stuck his remaining chips in.

I am turning my TT into a bluff here since this is not part of my 5-bet range.

Last edited by $tack$Poker; 02-09-2024 at 09:11 AM. Reason: Corrected since I jammed $515

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02-09-2024 , 09:38 AM

Stupidbanana

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 1,535

Yeaaaa I mean.. what are we doing here? I would 3-bet larger first of all, if BTN is cold calling. Also would help to know stack sizes. Rejamming seems like a large overplay. The door is open too so you could just 5-bet to about 200 since LJ and BTN seem capped. Awkward hand.

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02-09-2024 , 09:57 AM

$tack$Poker

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2024 Posts: 128

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stupidbanana

LJ had everyone covered so was playing the $515 effective
Hero- $515
BTN $200ish
BB $110

I generally 3-bet in position 3x, OOP 4x.

I just saw capped ranges from LJ and BTN and I was the only one uncapped so I jammed it in. I figured jamming gave me the highest fold equity. Unfortunately that was the extent of my “logic” at the time. I felt it was a high variance play but I am doing this with QQ+ and all AK and A5s. I thought my line looked super strong and could generate fold equity especially from what I perceived as capped ranges.

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02-09-2024 , 10:20 AM

Playbig2000

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,352

3x was fine, OOP I would bet 4x

After the LJ calls the 110 I might jus let it go at that point btjm. If we jam yes we're turning our hand into a bluff and I would want some FE which doesn't seem too likely here. We have just an upper med. PP basically.

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02-09-2024 , 10:26 AM

deuceblocker

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 3,383

You can't fold to the 110 shove. You are calling 55 with like 265 in the pot, so you have odds if you know they both have higher pps. You are shoving into a dry side pot to isolate. So you have to flat call. Kind of sucks if you get bluffed in the dry side pot later on, but you have just see what develops.

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02-09-2024 , 10:28 AM

pokerfan655

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,386

LJ cold calling the 110 here is very concerning - do you think he does that with 44/55/66/AJ/AT/AQ/etc? I don't - I think you're behind to this range. With that said its like 60 more to you with BB probably donating some money into the pot - I would call the 110 and see a flop. Postflop we're just hoping to check this down - would not be putting additional money in post unimproved most likely. Jamming preflop is the worst action you can do here - call>fold>jam

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02-09-2024 , 10:29 AM

docvail

old hand

Join Date: May 2023 Posts: 1,430

3B to 3x seems fine.

Action comes back around to you, I don't hate the jam too much, though it's a little awkward when the BTN only starts $200 effective and already cold called the $45. I'd think he'd be calling off the rest often enough to make a jam questionable.

It's weird that LJ didn't 5B over BB's jam. When he just flats, there's no reason to think you and the BTN aren't coming along too. Whatever he has, he must think it plays better multi-way, so I would think you could be in decent shape with TT.

But, yeah, flat calling is probably the more standard play.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

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02-09-2024 , 10:31 AM

pokerfan655

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,386

Quote:

Originally Posted by $tack$Poker

I just saw capped ranges from LJ and BTN and I was the only one uncapped so I jammed it in. I figured jamming gave me the highest fold equity.

LJ isn't capped here - he can have AA. Even so TT is marginal - he's not calling 110 with 55 or 66, so you're realistically probably 40% to his range. So when you jam - you probably get JJ to fold, but you're getting snapped off by KK/AA, probably QQ. No worse pairs are calling so you're basically trying to get JJ and maybe QQ to fold.

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02-09-2024 , 10:38 AM

$tack$Poker

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2024 Posts: 128

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerfan655

Why would AA and KK flat here inviting a 4 way pot though? If I call BTN likely calls. I agree TT is crushed by his range and if AA/KK are in range then I am definitely lighting money on fire. I could see him flat AKo, AQs+, 88-QQ.

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02-09-2024 , 10:43 AM

#10

$tack$Poker

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2024 Posts: 128

Quote:

Originally Posted by docvail

If I have AA/KK in LJ range then I agree flat and effectively set trap. How I ranged opponent though, I was thinking 5-bet jam or fold.

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02-09-2024 , 10:49 AM

#11

$tack$Poker

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2024 Posts: 128

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerfan655

This is the range I have him on AKo, AQs+, 88-QQ. I thought an additional $405 to call would generate decent fold equity and I could get folds from a large proportion of his range. By calling I am effectively set mining TT. I play pretty tight overall but I was honestly deciding between folding and jamming. Calling wasn’t really in my decision tree.

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02-09-2024 , 10:51 AM

#12

$tack$Poker

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2024 Posts: 128

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playbig2000

I ranged LJ at AKo, AQs+, 88-QQ and thought I could generate a decent amount of fold equity. I think that is where the biggest blunder is.

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02-09-2024 , 10:53 AM

#13

Playbig2000

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,352

Quote:

Originally Posted by $tack$Poker

I ranged LJ at AKo, AQs+, 88-QQ and thought I could generate a decent amount of fold equity. I think that is where the biggest blunder is.

If you think you had FE, then yeah I would jam too instead of call. I would hate to just flat there though.

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02-09-2024 , 10:53 AM

#14

$tack$Poker

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2024 Posts: 128

Quote:

Originally Posted by deuceblocker

My hope was to isolate the BB who was fairly wide with a bunch of dead money in the pot. I just going to have trouble finding a call here and set trapping with TT. It was jam or fold for me honestly.

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02-09-2024 , 10:58 AM

#15

$tack$Poker

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2024 Posts: 128

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playbig2000

If you think you had FE, then yeah I would jam too instead of call. I would hate to just flat there though.

Live $1/3 with $405 more to call I thought would generate more “fear” than the actual odds I was giving villain. I play tight preflop ranges but I get very aggressive when I sense weakness in certain scenarios. I am trying to figure out if that is my biggest leak or my biggest virtue lol. It is hard for me to draw definitive conclusions without being results oriented. However, it does seem consensus from this thread that my move was not ideal.

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02-09-2024 , 11:01 AM

#16

$tack$Poker

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2024 Posts: 128

Spoiler:

Last edited by $tack$Poker; 02-09-2024 at 11:25 AM. Reason: I spoiled too quickly

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02-09-2024 , 11:03 AM

#17

Playbig2000

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,352

RTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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02-09-2024 , 11:09 AM

#18

$tack$Poker

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2024 Posts: 128

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playbig2000

RTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pardon my ignorance but what does RTS mean?

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02-09-2024 , 11:21 AM

#19

Playbig2000

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,352

Quote:

Originally Posted by $tack$Poker

Pardon my ignorance but what does RTS mean?

Results too soon, they prefer you wait 24 hrs bc otherwise people will chime in with biased opinions after seeing the results ; )

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02-09-2024 , 11:25 AM

#20

$tack$Poker

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2024 Posts: 128

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playbig2000

Results too soon, they prefer you wait 24 hrs bc otherwise people will chime in with biased opinions after seeing the results ; )

Shoot. My bad.

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02-09-2024 , 11:25 AM

#21

pokerfan655

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,386

Quote:

Originally Posted by $tack$Poker

Yeh he maybe he doesn't flat KK/AA - I think with AA especially I might just flat as jamming looks so insanely strong.

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02-09-2024 , 11:26 AM

#22

$tack$Poker

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2024 Posts: 128

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playbig2000

Results too soon, they prefer you wait 24 hrs bc otherwise people will chime in with biased opinions after seeing the results ; )

I edited it so the reveal is no longer there

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02-09-2024 , 11:29 AM

#23

Playbig2000

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,352

Quote:

Originally Posted by $tack$Poker

I edited it so the reveal is no longer there

Awesome!! I won't say anything

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02-09-2024 , 11:33 AM

#24

$tack$Poker

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2024 Posts: 128

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerfan655

Yeh he maybe he doesn't flat KK/AA - I think with AA especially I might just flat as jamming looks so insanely strong.

This is really helpful though. I think I project my own strategy onto others and do not consider alternative approaches. In my view, I do not have a flatting range as LJ. I agree 5 betting looks super strong (lol the main reason I 5-bet jammed with TT as a bluff), but I just can never risk going 4 ways to a flop with AA there if I just call. There are so few flops that I feel great about 4-ways.

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02-09-2024 , 11:52 AM

#25

illiterat

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2,485

Quote:

Originally Posted by $tack$Poker

LJ had everyone covered so was playing the $515 effective
Hero- $515
BTN $200ish
BB $110

Quote:

Originally Posted by $tack$Poker

Why would AA and KK flat here inviting a 4 way pot though?

LJ is already basically HU vs. you when BB 4bet shoves 110, given BTN has 90 behind but you have 400 and the pot will be whatever. He gains almost nothing by 5bet AA/KK (BTN probably does nothing different either way), and he can easily scare you off.
Also given they'll be like 1 SPR on the flop it's not difficult to get the money in OOP.

Now, he has to be aware/good enough to realize that it's almost certainly better to call than 5bet ... but it's not a huge leap.

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