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Deep Stack Play, AA an KK preflop. Deep Stack Play, AA an KK preflop.

08-01-2015 , 04:10 PM
In regards to games 200BB cash games, I have encountered some tricky spots with KK preflop.

Specifically, facing a 5-bet shove or occasionally a 4-bet overshove, the closer villains stack is to 200BB, should would be folding KK pre-flop?

In live games where 4-betting light is seldom, and light 5-bets are an anomaly, are most people only shoving a range of KK+? . In which case, folding KK preflop to this type of action is correct.

In my experience, at about 100BB, a typical 4-bet shoving range is QQ+, AK.
At 200BB it is usually KK and AA, then again I may have some selective memory.

In any event, I was wondering from the experience of others, what seems to be the default 5-bet range at 200BB? Have you encountered enough villains shoving QQ and AK to warrant a call?
Deep Stack Play, AA an KK preflop. Quote
08-01-2015 , 04:28 PM
How often do these situations take place?

Seldom? Then stick to a tight range and move on.

Not much room for discussion, especially when most will simply respond using their own limited experience.
Deep Stack Play, AA an KK preflop. Quote
08-01-2015 , 04:49 PM
I try to get Aces Kings Queens Jacks (not 10s) and 9s all-preflop if I'm leading the action up to 300 bb deep. I'll call with kings pre up to 300 bb because at 2/5. But it is very villain specific. A lot of times I think Kings are a play the player not your hand type of hand more than any.
Deep Stack Play, AA an KK preflop. Quote
08-01-2015 , 08:25 PM
Here's the way I think about it.

When you have KK theres only one hand that beats you and you still have 20% equity against it.

So if you have 200bb and someone jams and you call and they have AA you still get back 80bb overall out of the 400bb pot worst case scenario.

If they ever jam w any other hand, you're ahead, or you chop. So to me calliing 99% of shoves or trying to get it in pre w KK (or similar second nut hands that still have equity when beat and even then require a pretty big anomaly to even happen) rather than folding is erring on the side of caution rather than the other way around.

Most of the time if I knew that too much money was involved that I'd be worrying about folding things like KK pre or second set on a dry flop, with the exception of the ultra nit scenario, I would know for sure that I have too much money on the table to be comfortable and should probably just put a large amount of money in the vault, and cash out.
Deep Stack Play, AA an KK preflop. Quote
08-06-2015 , 09:45 AM
So when you 3-bet pre, you win via folds, you win with a c-bet otf, or you get 4-bet and fold or get 4-bet and get ai and lose to AA? I'd just stop 3-betting KK.
Deep Stack Play, AA an KK preflop. Quote
08-06-2015 , 01:42 PM
Most villains won't shove 200bb without kk+ from my experience
Deep Stack Play, AA an KK preflop. Quote
08-06-2015 , 07:25 PM
If the secret to pre-flop play is to only 3-bet aces, or only 4-bet aces, you can do that too.

You're asking the wrong questions.

What are your PFR/3-bet/4-bet/5-bet ranges? Can they be improved?

How can you tell if someone else has different ranges? If someone else has different ranges, are they making a mistake? How can you profit if they are?

Flop is A72. Villain's range is KK+, how often can you steal the pot? Villain's range includes some amount of AK, how often can you steal the pot?

If the flop is T72 what does it mean if the Villain can't have KK+ in his range, because he would have 4-bet them? How do you feel about your QQ? How heavy is the Villain's range in unpaired overcards?

If the Villain's range is exploitably wrong, but he's making money, and you're not exploiting him, that's the issue.
Deep Stack Play, AA an KK preflop. Quote
08-06-2015 , 08:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dickwiggle
I try to get Aces Kings Queens Jacks (not 10s) and 9s all-preflop if I'm leading the action up to 300 bb deep. I'll call with kings pre up to 300 bb because at 2/5. But it is very villain specific. A lot of times I think Kings are a play the player not your hand type of hand more than any.
wat
Deep Stack Play, AA an KK preflop. Quote
08-07-2015 , 01:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dickwiggle
I try to get Aces Kings Queens Jacks (not 10s) and 9s all-preflop if I'm leading the action up to 300 bb deep. I'll call with kings pre up to 300 bb because at 2/5. But it is very villain specific. A lot of times I think Kings are a play the player not your hand type of hand more than any.
I would like to see your blackjack strategy.
Deep Stack Play, AA an KK preflop. Quote
08-07-2015 , 01:59 AM
I have seen Villains AIPF with 66 for 500 BB live 1/2. Also, 400BB with TT.

You cant put a cap on stupidity. It really comes down to the Villain. A guy that has run $200 into $1k might think he is invincible.
Deep Stack Play, AA an KK preflop. Quote

      
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