Hey guys, I've found myself this saturday sitting on one of the most juicy tables i've ever played. I've sat in the immediate left of a player who was down almost $2k (in 1/2), was playing extremely spew and bad, like 90/60, and was rebuying $500. He eventually built up his stack to ~$1200, and the average player was really bad and tilted and had ~150BBs.

I was sitting with ~$800. I was dealt AKo in UTG+2 and the pot has been straddled $8 by this player. I decided to limp because he raises with any 2 cards on his straddle, so I can rr to isolate him and have position. 5 limpers, he raises more $25, I make it $85, and I get HU with him with $40 of dead money.

Flop: ($210) AT9 rainbow. He checks, I cowered like a baby and bet $75. He calls.

Turn: ($360) Q. He checks, I check.

River T. He checks, I check behind.

Showdown: He had QJs and had an open-ender OTF.

What happened in my thoughts in this hand:

I was playing against the only guy who had me covered, and he was really spewy. I was so, SO afraid of being check/raised in any street and be possibly folding the best hand that it caused me to bet 1/3 of the pot OTF and checking all other streets. I know I should've checked down one street depending on the line, but I'm sure I missed a ton of value.

This is only one example of many situations I get involved frequently, but don't know how to deal with. Imagine I had position on this example, if I didn't I'm pretty sure he would've forced me out of the hand.

I have a really difficult type trying to analyze how my hand plays against a REALLY wide range that I end up betting random amounts or checking when I should've bet. And I think that these are the most profitable spots ever, playing against this players and extracting tons of value from his second pair.

I would really appreciate some advice on how to deal with these spots.

I agree that it's not necessary to bet all 3 streets. I usually would try to bet two of them, but this board get pretty gross on the turn, so at that point I'm fine with shifting into get to cheap showdown mode.

Honestly, I like your entire line except for the size of your flop bet. The texture of this board is such that he almost certainly caught some piece of it. Being the aggressive player that he is, he will float you quite wide here on the flop, and you know that you're not going to want to bet as many streets as you would in a non-3-bet pot against a more passive player. Knowing this, I think that a bet around 125-150 is in order on this flop.

PS: If the turn card is a blank in the 2-6 range, I'd fire half of the pot on the turn as well. I agree with checking back on this particular card as it hits his range pretty hard. Similarly I see no reason to bet this river as it's quite possible that he floated your flop bet with middle pair.

I think that in this situation, it's good to go back to fundamentals, and trust SPR. Yes, you have $800 and that's a lot in a 1-2 game. It might be scary to lose all of it in one hand. But this is very good situation, you have an SPR of 3.4 with TPTK versus a loose spew monkey holding a wide range. I would be trying to get stacks in. I would fire almost a PSB OTF, then shove OTT.

I know some people don't like SPR much, but I like it because it gives me the confidence to know when it's acceptable to stack off.

For understanding SPR, read Professional No-Limit Holdem

Given your read of the table, pre looks fine to me.

Your flop bet is too small. You should fire more like 125. You bet like your hand was weak.

Turn and river are ok. You have TPTK on a wet, wet board. This is why we use pot control. We don't have any idea what our opponent has. We're ahead sometimes, and we aren't getting called on the river by much that is behind us. That isn't a situation that screams "bet" to me.

Think of it like this: you have invested over 30 BB with a decent but not anywhere near made hand. If you had bet the flop right, you'd have 40-50 BB in there. Do you really want to commit any more than that with TPTK?

This board is crushing the range of a spew monkey. Why are we dying to get it in here? I feel like OP is going to get a better place.

You only have 1 pair but it s TPTK. In saying that, playing pot control w this guy is fine but you should def be betting the river for value.

How is checking in a spot where you'd get looked up for $200 any less than losing $200 by being c/raised and folding? More on the flop and worry about getting c/raised when it happens. Bet/fold the turn and understand that sometimes we will throw away the best hand but we can't win every pot; if you are checking it you have to bet the river because this spew-monkey plays anything that beats AK faster than he has done.

Normally we advocate never betting without having an absolutely entrenched plan, but against spew-monkeys who are making impulsive moves, we can't rely on such a predetermined course of action all the time because their impulsiveness creates too many variables. We have to rely on a lot of feel, physical tells, and simple things like the strength of our hand, which in this case vastly beats the range of hands that call a bet and likely beats the range of hands that c/raise.

If we're this afraid to play deep, we need to consider taking our stack off the table for an hour and returning when we can buy in for 100bb's again (casino dependant). You're going to make some huge mistakes that will likely chip away at you until you are at 100bb's anyways. If you want to continue to play deep, but are unwilling to stack-off light or make any hero calls, then you absolutely have to make some adjustments. Like in this hand for example: If you are so worried about betting TPTK, why are you limp-3betting preflop? Why don't you limp/call his straddle and let him barrel any flop that hits you while you are in position so you can pot-control and be under-repped and never worry about getting c/raised? I'm not saying this is optimal, but in your case it may be better.

this is a typical example of how tons of nitty players just can not adjust to changing game conditions
all hands are relative, and when you play against spewtards you need to realize the value of tptk on this board is way higher than it normally is

Really? I'm the only one who wants to commit on this hand? I know I'm still learning, but I'm shocked really. You've built a large pot PF versus a player who is playing extremely spewy and bad. He's willing to lose $2k in a 1/2 game. You have TPTK versus a very wide range. What % of time will you be behind that wide range? A small fraction, I'm thinking. If it happens to be this time, hey, that's poker, I'm willing to take that chance. It just seems to me like such a great opportunity to get all the money in, in two streets, against a player who likely will call with so many hands that we beat.

Am I being crazy here?


edit: last two posts I read after typing this one

I bet 1/2 to 2/3 PSB on flop. When he calls, I'm putting him on a draw, or a weaker ace.

I don't really like the turn queen, as it could give him 2pair or help his draw. After he checks, I'm happy to check turn behind here for pot control, and will be calling most reasonable bets on the river as long as it isn't a ridiculously scary card.

After he checks river, I dunno. I can't imagine him checking a monster hand here. I feel like betting again here, maybe 1/2 pot. But then that probably makes betting 1/2 pot on the turn the correct option as we would be getting draws on the turn to call.

So after reading my thoughts out loud, I think turn is probably a clear b/f. I'd really like to get two streets of value with TPTK against a terrible lag like this, so if his mistake is calling too much, then lets get those draws to call, and they'll only call on the flop and turn, and not the river (if it misses).

I actually stoved his range and OTT I had like 60-40. The range was basically any suited ace, and any broadway that's hit pair + gutshot and possibly a set of tens OR jacks, but that's unlikely.

I know I've done wrong, but at the heat of the moment I just couldn't think right. I just bet a random amount, pretty fast, fearing a C/R but still wanting to get some value. I know he's calling flop with 80% of his opening range and he will check the turn with the nut straight, but I don't have a clue if he will do that with QT, or J9 for instance, waiting for a C/R.

Looking back at it, I'm pretty sure he would call any all-in OTT with his hand; he had middle pair AND an open-ended. And that's REALLY A LOT OF OUTS on the mind of a tilted player, he feels like if he is ahead.

Let's put it simple: OTF, the pot contains ~$200, and I have ~$715. If I bet $175 and he calls (and he will), the pot will be $450 and I will have $550. A shove here would be great I guess, in this particular spot.

The problem I've found is if he is only calling us here with this exclusive kind of hand (pair+OESD) or he sill be calling with weaker aces. And this is really important.

These decisions aren't easy to take even when you give them 15min of thinking. This is the big problem, on a real hand we have to take a tough decision like that in like 1 minute, and given the heat and the stacks' pressure it is hard.

However, had I realized that when I invest 42 BB PF with AK with the main objective of getting HU with a bad, tilt player on a big pot, I REALLY DO WANT to commit myself with TPTK with a turn shove.

I just got out from a 14h session. I played with 500BB half of the session, and one think I deeeeeeply realized is how hard, and how important is to remain profoundly focused and that, in this level of deepness, a simple mistake can cause you to lose it all, or miss pushing a huge pot.

Sigh....

Live an learn PV, live and learn. This won't happen next time because you are realizing your mistake and going over it in your free time =)

grunch

Why are you checking the turn? what did the Q bring? gutshots? I guess J9 but really? the turn is a definite value bet and to protect your hand. When the river pairs and he checks i guess i am ok with checking behind but against this bad an opponent i think we can even b/f for value.

Agree with pretty much everyone so far, my only advice would be more pre, 100 or so, as this guy is raise folding like never and we want him to put as much money as possible in ahead of his range.

OP, when faced with these kinds of situation, take a breath and sloww things down. There is no reason to act quickly here, take an extra 30 seconds (a minute if needed) and compose yourself, it will make a world of difference.

Yeah, that's it! If I put $85 cuz he won't be folding, so why not $100, or maybe $115...

Slowing down, yes. But the old reg guys pretty much always whine that I take too long to act, and I don't want to make them feel uncomfortable (lolz)

$110 PF, $220 OTT and shove most rivers, in my head this is the most optional line for this situation.

Just keep b/f ing big on all street against this villains.

Ezy game

You seem like you are missing value because you don't trust yourself to make better decisions than villain. Similar to the AA thread yesterday.

Here is the thing. You are deep. SO IS VILLAIN.

If he is getting too much money in without 1 pair beaten exploit him by happily getting in 150BB. If he is not, exploit him by folding. Here you are basically avoiding tough decisions at the expense of $$

I'm not reading all the replies on the first page.

Preflop is fine if that's his strategy on his straddles. Quesuerte says B/F all streets big and I would agree with that by and large. I think I'd check the turn a bunch. Rough card for our range, good for his, don't want to have to fold to a raise, etc.

Your flop bet is bad. I know you know it, but I'd be doing you a disservice by not mentioning it. We get nothing to fold and have no idea what is going on in the hand. It serves no purpose.

If anything it allows an aggro player to raise for fun and force us into an annoying decision.

Oops, I mean $220 OTF and shove most turns.

PF----> ok

Flop sizing sucks bet bigger on flop and barrel turn and I'm prob betting river also against this type of opponent. But I wouldn't bomb the river, I would bet smallish, and try to get looked up by a Q, or any ace since he will say " I'm chopping with any ACE other that AK "

If you're playing like this and scared to play deep, then get up and go home IMO. Your giving up so much value by playing like this against an opponent like this it makes me want to throw up.

Oh and BTW since there was an 8$ straddle on you're only playing 100bb's effective...