1/2 $100.00 capped game

Hero's Image: winning, been there for an hour but only played a few hands

Villian's Image – seems to watch and think about poker more so then the average 1/2 rec player, he takes notes on his phone throughout the session and plays careful – late twenties, nice guy - Winning but I did see him make a couple of mistakes.

Effective Stacks - $185.00

3 limps and then...
V1-SB – limps
Hero-BB-checks – A10o

Pot 10
Flop: 10 3 8
Checked around to V, he bets 10
Hero calls, the others fold

Pot 30

Turn: 4

V1 bets 20
Hero calls

Pot $70.00

River: K

V1 checks
Hero -?

check it back

It's tempting to b/f when you're sure you're ahead but it doesn't matter at all how often you're ahead, what matters is that 50% of villains calls are with worse. That's a really scary river card for any hand we're ahead of, I think he folds almost anything we beat.

if you bet are you betting for value or as a bluff? what is this guy going to call with that we beat? what is he going to fold that has us beat? does he believe you and think 'his flush got there?'

Bet 25. he will crying call with smaller Tx. I will probably minrase turn if i didn't reraise otf. we are playing way too passive with TPTK.

As played check back

He is never going to call or raise u with worse if he is a somewhat thinking player.

probably raise flop to 30 or turn to 50 but prefering the flop raise

I like raising the turn here, figure out where your at while still definitely getting value from worse before the board gets scary on the river.

On the flop villain acts first right (SB) then you, with 3 PF limpers behind?
I raise here: to let SB know I want the pot and to clear out some of the overcards that are sure to be sitting behind.
Check behind on river seems prudent.

check behind seems fine to me. Yes, maybe he has JT, but he couldalso have a set or 2 pair that got scared of the spades. You have lots of show down value, so check and get the most out of it.

What? What hands are giving us value here?

Hey guys,
Answer me this....
As the hand progressed I felt his range could be over pair, two pair and any 10 combo
(Please correct my thinking if it's skewed to you) because he was leading out each street till the river.

That's what threw me off, if his hand is strong enough to lead out on the flop and turn, why not on the river. Was he thinking c/r and if yes, why, whats the point of a c/r on the river. His checking the river to me meant weakness.

Right?

Or do these players at this level just get passive out of no where?

He's scared of the flush. Don't know what you find so perplexing I see villains take this line all of the time when the river makes the board scary. Most players are show-down monkeys.

Also villain is in small blind, so why do you say it checks around to him on the flop lol?

More than likely: the river didn't improve his hand, it made it worse in his eyes, so he checked. Plus you called him twice.

He probably has exactly what you say - overpair, two pair, Tx. He's afraid of either one or both of the K and of the flush.

Just recognize, given that range, if you bet, it's a bluff. I think it's a bad bluff, IMO, these guys are generally pretty bad at folding stuff like QQ or two pair or a randomly played KT here.

It's not a bluff if you bet wtf. It's thin value, unless this guy is an ubernit. In my experience 20somethings that take notes in their phone are capable of valuebetting 2pair plus on this river at least half of the time. Theres no doubt in my mind that alot of the time you are simply outkicking him. 20-30 dollars will get value from a crying call alot.

Think about your line. Is V really calling you with JT? You have played this hand exactly how you would play a flush draw. How do you get to this river and then bet it without something at least as good as a decent Tx?

A bet is a bluff repping a flush, not a value bet.

What overpairs would he limp preflop in position?

This range is all over the place and you need to think it through because there are multiple competing things here.

On one hand you say villain seems ok.... So if that is the case, is an okay villain limping in position preflop with JJ+??? No.

Now, lets look at two pair combos. The only two pair combo that makes sense is T8. We beat every other Tx hand, so again, why are we scared of two pairs? Would a decent player play T3, 83 from late position? So basically, we shouldn't be worried about two pair combos

Why should he not lead out if he has top pair? Top pair is the virtual nuts at 1/2nl.

As played, you simply must must MUST raise him on turn. no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Players overcall with TPMK in spots like this all the time. He will put you on the flush draw and level himself into calling.

River is a bet/fold. 1/2 pot for fat value.

Not only will V call with JT but he will call 100% believing that you hit the flush and he will make the crying call because he is a fish, and that is what fish do.

Villains at this level make these calls all the freaking time.

Or put another way. If villains at this level folded top pair to scare cards, I would float and bluff a helluva lot more... And we all know that isn't profitable at this level...

This is a poster child situation for bet/folding and going for thin value. Not only do we get thin value in these spots. But when the table sees that we bet river on this scare board with mid pair and took it down... Later, when we are monster and bet river we will get called

As played, I bet/fold this all day...

To be honest, I find the whole hand a little difficult to play.

With 4 players already in the pot and me hating playing bloated pots OOP (especially against bigger Aces who could have easily limped in before me), I also just check the BB.

I find the flop difficult as I kinda don't like all the options. I don't like folding cuz it seems to weak. I don't like raising cuz it gets on our way to building a big pot (plus there are others behind us who we have no idea what they have and we could end up OOP). And calling is also a little iffy since we have no draw to help us out plus 3 others to act behind us. I probably take the inbetween route and just call as well.

Turn is also mehish. Villain is continually betting into us again. I suppose it could simply be a worse T protecting against the draw. I like the fact we've kept the pot small and thus aren't in danger of stacking off with one pair. I also just call.

I think I just check behind on the river. We have a showdownable hand and it's possible this guy was betting a worse T. If we're going to bet, I think the bet is a bluff trying to fold out two pairs / sets, in which case I would go pot (but, in general, good luck folding out these types of hands). So I like showing down better.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Yea, typo in my brain but you knew what I meant.

Raising this turn would be so, so, so, soooooo bad.

Are we folding to a re-ship? I would imagine we would have to, but we would've put about half of our stack in before doing so. It's almost like you want to raise to find out where we're at and we all know how lolbad that thought process is. By raising, we make it easy for him to fold any hand that we beat and he's never folding any hand that beats us. I think it's better to just call down and keep his bluffs in his range while being able to go for value on rivers.

I think it's well played. Now bet the river. I would go for 30-35

30

So in the 1/2nl games you play, your vilains often fold TPGK on flush draw boards when they are raised?

We are ahead of every Tx combo with the exception of T8. No way V folds KT, QT, or even JT or T9 to our turn raise.

I guess we play in different games, because the 1/2nl games I play in, its common to see villains playing for stacks with TPGK regardless of how high that top pair is. Board could be 8 7 2 3 3 and villains will go to war with J8 vs A8 for 80bb...

Most villains didn't drive 30 minutes to the casino to fold QT to our turn raise.

dgi i think we have to consider there is a chance that villain is not the regular 1/2 fish

hes likely an above average player according to OPs read and in that case i think just flatting turn is fine and check back river is fine.

hes likely on Tx (T9, JT, QT, KT), 88, and 33. he never has TT+ or a flush here so we're ahead of most of his range. OP did say villain has made some mistakes, but we dont know what they are. if hes been calling too lightly, but perhaps not as lightly as a normal 1/2 fish, then b/f river is good. if his mistakes are being too spewy or limping too much or whatever, then i like checking river back since weak Tx might find a fold in this spot.

idk. most $1/$2 villains aren't going to go for a check raise on the river when they want to get money in the pot. they're going to lead out.

I go for thin value here. There are more combos of worse Ts than sets/2p.

Honestly I'm shocked so many people want to check back here. A large majority of your profit can come from many spots like this and out pipping people with better kickers because they are limping any 10x, kx suited etc. Who cares if he can find a fold (which in many cases he won't) at least give him the opportunity to call. I mean this is face up as a worse ten here so often. And I mean ask yourself if you can't bet on the river given the action your going to be exploitable to good players. In that it will be obvious you will only be betting complete nut type hands and air and nothing inbetween on rivers, which makes it much easier for people to play against you.

dgi made great points even when people are sure they are beat, give them the right price and you get a crying call all day. Also (the rumor) I like where your going in trying to see the hand through villains point of view. However your error is in not empathizing with the villain enough. You are pretending that the villain is you and is thinking about the hand as are you. This is a dangerous mistake as often we don't know what or how villains are thinking. Your trying to desect the hand on like level 3-4 when villain is playing his hand face up for the most part. No need to go this deep unless there is history and metagame. This is a pretty clear spot to bet/fold.