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Cooler or bad decision? Cooler or bad decision?

07-16-2022 , 04:49 PM
Playing 2/3

Table with half older guys playing very wide ranges (calling preflop raises with K7o) and half younger players playing tighter but aggressive with their betting post flop

I limp from early position.
Preflop raise to $20 from late position (tighter range player). 2 callers and it gets to me.

I call the preflop raise to $20 in early position with JTo with one player left to act behind me. Player behind me also calls.

5 people see a flop of AJT rainbow. I lead out for $100.

Next player goes all in ($140 total)(K7o guy)

3rd player who has me covered ($800 total) also goes all in (tighter range player).

Everyone else folds and I call and get shown pocket 10s from the 3rd player who has me covered.

2nd player shoved with a straight draw.

Board ran out and my two pair didn't improve.

Would the best move have been to fold my J10o to the preflop raise so i wouldn't put myself in that predicament?
Cooler or bad decision? Quote
07-16-2022 , 05:08 PM
You are correct, JTo should be folded in early position. You can raise JTs from EP, or JTo from late position. I think in general it's not a good idea to open-limp, but certainly there are some players who employ this strategy successfully.

Post-flop, I think donk-leading for full pot into 4 other players with bottom two pair on this board is also a pretty significant mistake. Would think the best play here is going to be to check to the original raiser, who can have all of the strong hands on this board (AA, JJ, TT, KQ, AJ, etc). Check and see what the other players do and react accordingly. Bottom two pair on a board like this is not a super strong hand five ways, so I would proceed with a degree of caution here.
Cooler or bad decision? Quote
07-16-2022 , 05:15 PM
It was kind of a cooler but several bad decisions led you there. You limped in early position and called a nearly 7x raise with a hand that is way behind their range and easily dominated. Post-flop you telegraphed your hand and someone woke up with a better hand, which shouldn't be surprising. People play mostly high cards and this board smacks tight raising/calling ranges. It shouldn't surprise you if you run into KQ, a set, or better two pair with four other players in the pot. That's the problem with JTo, the only boards you're really comfortable in a multi-way pot are when you flop a straight, top two, or a straight draw with no flush draw on board.
Cooler or bad decision? Quote
07-16-2022 , 05:16 PM
Yes, limp/calling from EP with JTo isn't great. If you are playing with half the table being loose-passive then tighten up your ranges and take them to value town with your value hands and seek thin value when you can.
Cooler or bad decision? Quote
07-17-2022 , 05:11 PM
Bad decision to limp in with JTo. Bad decision to to call the raise with JTo. Bad decision to donk bet this flop without letting the pfr make a move.

Not a cooler at all.
Cooler or bad decision? Quote
07-17-2022 , 05:45 PM
I have to agree with the consensus, that you shouldn't be limping JT in early position, or open-limping with it at all. That hand benefits more from position than hands like AQ, so it is easier just to pitch it when you're out of position. It is much easier just to decide you are never going to open-limp; if you're not comfortable with putting in a raise, then just fold the hand. (Folding is very cheap!) Otherwise, you're just going to find yourself now forced either to abandon your limp or to call a raise out of position, and both are yuck.

You led out for $100 into an $80 pot? Why so much? 1/2 pot is normal, here. With a wet board and out of position, you might bump this up to $50 or $55, but not all the way to $100. One advantage of that bet is if the short stack raises and the other person calls, you can reraise. With your bet, you won't be allowed to reraise because the small stack's raise is not a full bet.

After the second all-in, this is an easy fold. The bigger stack certainly has 2-pair or better, which means he beats your bottom two.
Cooler or bad decision? Quote
07-17-2022 , 06:11 PM
Nor a cooler, but not for the reasons stated. In today's laggy games, OOP, or not, I'll play JTo from early for the limp if I think the flop will go multi-way. After the raise, I'll call if I think there will be at least 3 of us and no reraise. These conditions seem to have been met, as well as a reasonable description of the table. So, I'm with you so far.

OK, you flop the bottom two pair and you donk overbet? WTF man! That board is wet as hell and you're giving up on gaining further information? That is where you screwed the pooch. This is a check and evaluate 100% of the time.

If the action goes anything like it did after you donked, then it's a sigh fold.

If you insist on betting, I could get on board with a 1/2 PSB, assuming you can fold after the action goes as it did.

The bottom line here is that if you're going to play marginal hands, from any position, let alone early, you need decent post-flop skills and the ability to evaluate live reads and act accordingly (translate, you can fold after committing chips with cards to come).

Clearly, you have not acquired these skills and therefore you owned yourself by gambling in a spot you shouldn't have.
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07-17-2022 , 06:35 PM
I agree if youre playing loose pre flop ranges I treat it like plo or an open hand where you have to smash the flop and if you face significant action you need a strong hand to call. heads up I could find a call against more than a few players but multi way once the 3rd guy calls I start looking to fold.
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07-18-2022 , 11:44 AM
I fold preflop both times. I'm pretty much only playing JTo in LP in limped pots.

Bottom two pear on this board is an extremely mediocre hand. I would probably check/evaluate. If betting, I'd only bet a small amount like 1/3 PSB - 1/2 PSB (targetting worse hands that could manage a call); donking a hugenormous PSB is massively overplaying our hand, imo.

Next time don't show results right away as it will taint responses.

Against a tighter player for this huge $$$ amount, this is a trivial fold for me. Calling it off is just a massive overvalued punt. Honestly, you should probably never play JTo from any position (even limped to in LP) if you're going to massively overvalue this poorly, imo.

Gnothatin',justsayin'G
Cooler or bad decision? Quote
07-18-2022 , 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
I fold preflop both times. I'm pretty much only playing JTo in LP in limped pots.

Bottom two pear on this board is an extremely mediocre hand. I would probably check/evaluate. If betting, I'd only bet a small amount like 1/3 PSB - 1/2 PSB (targetting worse hands that could manage a call); donking a hugenormous PSB is massively overplaying our hand, imo.

Next time don't show results right away as it will taint responses.

Against a tighter player for this huge $$$ amount, this is a trivial fold for me. Calling it off is just a massive overvalued punt. Honestly, you should probably never play JTo from any position (even limped to in LP) if you're going to massively overvalue this poorly, imo.

Gnothatin',justsayin'G
I keep thinking about this hand and the more I think about it bottom two-pair has enough value and the game seems aggressive enough that I'm completely on board with a 1/3 PSB ($25). This donk should have the desired effect of getting everyone else you play their hand face up and make an easy fold.
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07-18-2022 , 12:26 PM
fold pre
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