Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Commerce 5-5 (300-500) QQ facing an ISO 3-bet spot OOP with GODMODE Image. Commerce 5-5 (300-500) QQ facing an ISO 3-bet spot OOP with GODMODE Image.

08-11-2012 , 08:56 AM
Just played in this game for the first time.

Anyways I bought in 500 and proceeded to get AA and KK a lot that won medium-large pots and flopped sets on dry boards that paired OTT making TP seem strong.

50 minutes later I'm up to 2250 and I get in an odd spot despide my image.

Image: The only hand I lost at showdown (50 minutes with a VPIP > 30%, lots of showdowns) was AxK vs. AQx preflop after I had accidentally nitrolled myself in the previous hand.

History: not short
Spoiler:
Previous hand vs ^fish: In BB he limped like UTG+2/3 and 1 over limper.
4 handed ($14 pot LOL@RAKE):
effective stacks 275

Flop:
44K

I lead 15 with (46), fish (285)calls, 2 folds.

Turn:
5

I lead 35, fish (270) makes it 70 really quick. (I think for a while because I am deciding whether I have a bluff catcher or if villain really just has 2 pair.) I just call.

River:
Q

I check, villain bets 100(200), I nitroll him with a tank-call. He shows KJ

The BB in this hand was for sure the biggest fish. He would auto-call any action I put out there but seemed to be playing sorta tighter vs other openers.

The CO was very agressive opening 15 from LP and 20 from earlier positions clearly trying to create smaller pots that could take down later. Had not shown any big bluffs nor when watching him barrel did he bet trying to win stacks w/o strong holdings.

preflop history:

Villain opens to 20 from CO. SB folds, I 3bet to 70 with A5off in the BB. Villain snap-folds.

Next orbit I pick-up QQ in the BB villain opens to 15 from the BUT, SB nitfish flats (250) [nitfish probably has suited connectors PPs, KQ, and some Axss hands). I raise to 70, Villain insta ships it for 395 more.

I tank for a bit and call realizing that I raised to induce and hopefully he spazzes. K comes on the river 8473K board he mucks.




Quiet period occurs where I was not picking up QQ+ every rotation (running bad, lol). I pick-up QQ in the SB, folds to the only real villain at the table(980, I cover) at the table opens to 15 from the CO, BUT calls 15, I...

The BB is a total fish short-stacker that doesn't have a fold button preflop vs me but has only 80 left. I felt like he would squeeze get it in light if I called.

Villain opens a **** ton from LP so I think I should have squeezed vs villain but I decided to play differently, I had been playing all my value hands pretty fast. Without the fish I 3bet/??? like 75% of the time, and flat 25%.


I call 10, BB fish ships it for 80. Villain asks how much total, studies the pot for a couple moments then announces 180.

It's now 165 to me with 800 behind.

I have an insane image but what do we do, all 3 options seem ok.

At the time I was thinking Call>Fold>Ship.

If I call he can cbet the flop with a wide range and we call and get stacks. However on a lot of blanks we are getting it in with a crai,b/c,c/c line soo...

If I fold It can't be terrible but it's probably the nittish/-EV/low-variance route.

If I ship it vs what I perceive as a balanced range that will responded by folding lots and calling with better and AK and getting away playing the dominated portion of his range correctly.

Final thought.

Villain had just shipped a huge pot after he re-bought after I stacked him.
[SPOIL]
I had KK in BB it was 4 limped to me, SB checks I make it 30 (lots of shorties that hadn't rebought after playing in pots vs me) get 4 calls.

Flop: 969R (150)
SB fish looks me down for 5 seconds then leads 190 (390). I tank fold with 3 players behind with the only draw being the obvious gutter. Villain ships it for like 4xx. SB has 66 and BUT has 98.

Turn comes case 9 and the villain he ships a 1K pot after getting it in really badly. (I would never raise in this spot lol)
[SPOIL]

Last edited by DaBowskii; 08-11-2012 at 09:01 AM.
Commerce 5-5 (300-500) QQ facing an ISO 3-bet spot OOP with GODMODE Image. Quote
08-11-2012 , 11:03 AM
I don't like your slowplay preflop. If you think the SB will never fold to your preflop raises, than it's an awesome squeeze to $80! A squeeze also has advantages against the openraiser: He will never see a cheap flop with his wide OR-range and he'll have a hard time calling your $80 squeeze with these hands. On another note, you get rid of the button, yet another player you'd have to face oop. The merits of squeezing are huge compared to your passive line.

If you get 4-bet after your squeeze, you should consider folding your QQ, even though it sucks to 3bet/fold QQ against a villain that just rebought. Considering it doesn't mean you auto-fold though: If villain is way too aggro or just fed up with you having premium hands all night long, you might get it in well. I've got too little information on villain to tell you the right play for that scenario, though.


As played: If I was villain, it'd make it $160-$200 with a huge percentage of my OR-range, cause the button and you put a lot dead money in the pot, so that villain can isolate the loose shorty push very profitably. Thus, I won't find a fold here. 4bet/folding with QQ sucks even more than 3bet/folding as you would've to put more money in preflop just to find out that villain is ready to get it in.

This being said, it's an easy call preflop. Postflop, your range looks like a mediocre pair or AQ/AJ type of hand, QQ might be a little disguised, so I'd love to get it in on low card flops. If you flop an overcard, say goodbye once villain get's aggressive.
Commerce 5-5 (300-500) QQ facing an ISO 3-bet spot OOP with GODMODE Image. Quote
08-11-2012 , 04:00 PM
Didn't read all of it, but you only have 2 options, and I think I like stare down/5b best. And I don't mind flatting the first raise at all under the circumstances.

You have QQ at the Commerce right?
Commerce 5-5 (300-500) QQ facing an ISO 3-bet spot OOP with GODMODE Image. Quote
08-11-2012 , 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konti
I don't like your slowplay preflop. If you think the SB will never fold to your preflop raises, than it's an awesome squeeze to $80! A squeeze also has advantages against the openraiser: He will never see a cheap flop with his wide OR-range and he'll have a hard time calling your $80 squeeze with these hands. On another note, you get rid of the button, yet another player you'd have to face oop. The merits of squeezing are huge compared to your passive line.

If you get 4-bet after your squeeze, you should consider folding your QQ, even though it sucks to 3bet/fold QQ against a villain that just rebought. Considering it doesn't mean you auto-fold though: If villain is way too aggro or just fed up with you having premium hands all night long, you might get it in well. I've got too little information on villain to tell you the right play for that scenario, though.


As played: If I was villain, it'd make it $160-$200 with a huge percentage of my OR-range, cause the button and you put a lot dead money in the pot, so that villain can isolate the loose shorty push very profitably. Thus, I won't find a fold here. 4bet/folding with QQ sucks even more than 3bet/folding as you would've to put more money in preflop just to find out that villain is ready to get it in.

This being said, it's an easy call preflop. Postflop, your range looks like a mediocre pair or AQ/AJ type of hand, QQ might be a little disguised, so I'd love to get it in on low card flops. If you flop an overcard, say goodbye once villain get's aggressive.
I agree with most of this. I am not afraid of BB folding much even if I 3 bet. My plan was to flat/4bet but when I get 4bet by the opener I had a feeling it was to isolate vs the ****** in the BB.

The way stacks are if I 3bet and BB overcalls then villain will play better vs my range although I retain the initiative. If I 4bet I can look lighter or if I flat I think villain cbets flop a lottttttt and our hand has decent equity on most flops (way less vulnerable than smaller pairs/AK) we can pick up some deadmoney postflop and value from our disguised overpair.

All that being said I dunno if raise to 380/call or c/call, lead is gonna get the money in vs more of his range.
Commerce 5-5 (300-500) QQ facing an ISO 3-bet spot OOP with GODMODE Image. Quote
08-12-2012 , 12:21 AM
isnt this a fist pump moment?

re-raise
Commerce 5-5 (300-500) QQ facing an ISO 3-bet spot OOP with GODMODE Image. Quote
08-12-2012 , 12:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by metski
isnt this a fist pump moment?

re-raise
Yeah new game + felt like my stack-off range for 200BBs with our dynamic was meh. I was thinking of leading on certain flops that I expect him not to cbet and I am comfortable getting it in on the flop?

But if we have good image what's the appropriate betsizing?

Hero should

a) ship it for 800 more (AI)
b) raise 200 more (600 behind)
c) raise 350 more (450 behind)
d) flat
e) click it back to 280
Commerce 5-5 (300-500) QQ facing an ISO 3-bet spot OOP with GODMODE Image. Quote
08-12-2012 , 12:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by metski
isnt this a fist pump moment?

re-raise
+1, if villian really is decent he is isolating with less than ak, I am making it 430 and snapping if he shoves unless he is a nit who only plays AA/KK this way.
Commerce 5-5 (300-500) QQ facing an ISO 3-bet spot OOP with GODMODE Image. Quote
08-12-2012 , 12:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBowskii
Yeah new game + felt like my stack-off range for 200BBs with our dynamic was meh. I was thinking of leading on certain flops that I expect him not to cbet and I am comfortable getting it in on the flop?

But if we have good image what's the appropriate betsizing?

Hero should

a) ship it for 800 more (AI)
b) raise 200 more (600 behind)
c) raise 350 more (450 behind)
d) flat
e) click it back to 280
Villian obviously has a hand and probably only has 2-3 hands in his range that have less than 30% equity vs you, so I don't like flatting or clicking. Shipping will get more folds than hero calls, and I think a large raise looks even stronger than a shove.
The only merit I see to a reclick is if you want the option to fold your hand, but I this isn't really a spot most villians will spaz in. There aren't a ton of flops you will like, so if you see one you probably want less than a pot size bet left for the flop.
Commerce 5-5 (300-500) QQ facing an ISO 3-bet spot OOP with GODMODE Image. Quote
08-12-2012 , 12:54 AM
Was villain wearing a baseball cap or was that the ss fish?
Commerce 5-5 (300-500) QQ facing an ISO 3-bet spot OOP with GODMODE Image. Quote
08-12-2012 , 01:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaverslayer
Was villain wearing a baseball cap or was that the ss fish?
Villain is the second best player. but I would dominate this guy in HU positions and make bluffs with wiffed air cause he cbet too often on dry boards.

If villain is a guy who had barrels for days and was troubling me earlier I think flatting is bad. I took into account that I can outplay him postflop and I think a crai flop is probably good or just bet like 4/5 pot OTT.

I'm not afraid to stick it in at this depth but I don't know if it's the best option, I have a roll that allows me to experiment w/ alternative lines and I think deception is good vs decent hand readers.

He kept saying that I win all hands so when I flat I feel like he will want to show me a bluff or stg of the sorts.

Weird dynamic when you are getting a premium hand every rotation and other players are flopping inferior top pairs for days.
Commerce 5-5 (300-500) QQ facing an ISO 3-bet spot OOP with GODMODE Image. Quote
08-12-2012 , 02:35 AM
what should hero be reraising here?

JJ+AK seems good right?
Commerce 5-5 (300-500) QQ facing an ISO 3-bet spot OOP with GODMODE Image. Quote
08-12-2012 , 10:53 AM
Wait, didn't you flat pre so that exactly what happened would happen?

Pretty happily cramming here
Commerce 5-5 (300-500) QQ facing an ISO 3-bet spot OOP with GODMODE Image. Quote
08-12-2012 , 12:39 PM
Was villain the 98 guy? What are your reads on him, just 2nd best player at the table who cbets too much?
Commerce 5-5 (300-500) QQ facing an ISO 3-bet spot OOP with GODMODE Image. Quote
08-12-2012 , 05:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyvjv13
Wait, didn't you flat pre so that exactly what happened would happen?

Pretty happily cramming here
I hate sacrificing stack leverage, but i also don't love the prospect of calling 6bets even with a little preflop dynamic.

I thought a long time then 5 bet to 380, leaving villain 600 behind if he called (pot would also be 860ish). If effective stacks were a little deeper like 1500 or 2000 after villain made it 180 I think my line gets more blurred.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mike dexter
Was villain the 98 guy? What are your reads on him, just 2nd best player at the table who cbets too much?
Villain was the 98 guy and the 98 hand was the hand before.


He had a LAGs opening range from mid-late position but IMO he could have boosted his redline with more postflop agression. I also noted that he was the type to spazz preflop

This was in the spoiler:

The CO was very agressive opening 15 from LP and 20 from earlier positions clearly trying to create smaller pots that could take down later. Had not shown any big bluffs nor when watching him barrel did he bet trying to win stacks w/o strong holdings.

preflop history:

Villain opens to 20 from CO. SB folds, I 3bet to 70 with A5off in the BB. Villain snap-folds.

Next orbit I pick-up QQ in the BB villain opens to 15 from the BUT, SB nitfish flats (250) [nitfish probably has suited connectors PPs, KQ, and some Axss hands). I raise to 70, Villain insta ships it for 395 more.

I tank for a bit and call realizing that I raised to induce and hopefully he spazzes. K comes on the river 8473K board he mucks.
Commerce 5-5 (300-500) QQ facing an ISO 3-bet spot OOP with GODMODE Image. Quote

      
m