6-handed, late-late night

Hero with ~$2200 covers Villain in UTG with ~$1200

Hero in BB with 56
Limped around to BB

Question: At a table where everyone else has 70/12/0 stats, is this good enough of a hand to raise in an attempt to isolate? I have no idea how to play in these settings and I guess I have to brush up on it.

Hero checks option.

Flop ($55): 347

Hero (BB) bets $50
Villain (UTG) raises to $100
4 folds
Hero (BB) re-raises to $320
Villain (UTG) calls

Turn ($700): 10
Villain has $870 behind. Hero?

This Villain LOVED to make hero folds, so I figured a check-shove line would look stronger, as he probably thinks I have a straight after the flop action. He's a huge slow-player so I can't exactly bet-fold either street.

Anyway, your views, LLSNL?

First....how are you going to isolate when they see 70% of flops...I would advise take your pot and implied odds.

Flop I like.except I might raise larger like 375 or 400 to set up a turn shove.

As played you have little fold equity to check shove and puts your hand which is very vulnerable of either having to call a shove...or giving a free card which we don't want.

With that said what reads to we have on his drawing hands...virtually every flush draw beats you...ifbhe never takes this line with a flush draw I bet 550 and call a shove.

If he does I might c/f here...because if we c/c we are most likely going to be calling all in or atleast a river jam....in any case this can never be anything less than for value...and you are usually beat...since you hold blockers to any straight flush draw.

I believe we are up against a set which I find more likely and maybe an Axc hand.

Tbh for such a hand that is really read dependent to determine turn...please give us reads on villian besides he loves to hero fold.

CR is too small. make it 400. Normally i would shove turn but vs some villains that will shove if they have JJc or fold if i shove, i would bet./call 400 again. Its a dumb line, but many times does in fact achieve optimal results.

If your edge is solid, raising SCs IP from LP is fine. OOP, like in this hand, no, light your cigars with a lighter instead

This is never a raise in the BB. Keep the pot small and the pot stack ratio small as well that way our opponents make bigger mistakes when we make our hand and stack them. I don't like a check on the turn and I think you give up too much b/f ing. I think it's a b/c for sure. I'd probably bet anywhere between 375 and 450.

I say you shove a 2/3rds pot bet. Won't make him fold, if he has the Ac or Kc. You still have outs for a straight flush as well. So your not dead in the water.

What was your plan on the hand? Seems like you want to play for stacks. But when you hit your card. You want to fold?

Its only a 6% chance he has clubs anyway.

Check your option, bet around $400-500 on the turn--don't want to give him a chance to check back a potential scare card, and/or get there for free with a limped AAc/KKc/QQc.
Maybe a bit more on the flop (400) so you can just jam turn without it looking like too big of an overbet.

Out of position sucks, even when you flop the nuts--tough to get max value.

Raising pre would be terrible.

And it point of turn, its imposssible we are folding, so the question is how best to have the money go into the pot.

I just thought about it again...ya I'm never folding here...

I'd lead here again but I still like a bet of 400-500

And call anyshove....I.think.checking is out of the question..although Idk a c/r might commit him as well...but I don't thinking we want to give a free card as well...

So back to my original assumption lead turn

Wait a minute... you guys are actually suggesting that the turn card doesn't ruin my hand? I basically fall from the nuts to something like the 50th nuts.

I don't see how Villain has anything on the turn EXCEPT a made flush: overpairs raise pre-flop (these guys are 70/12, not 70/0) and sets almost always shove the flop to "protect against draws".

What do you guys think his hand range consists of after the flop call? A7?

My logic behind check-shoving the turn was to scare off low made flushes (something like 89) at the expense of not getting paid off by less likely other straights (56) because this Villain loved to hero fold.

I'm genuinely surprised that the LLNSL consensus is that I'm still betting for value here.

^^^
cuts to the chase
this is how u should be thinking, is that what you're sayin' ANL?

OPs hand can't improve, but was actually unimproved on the turn, in that it's technically a stronger hand, but is now in a potentially dominated position; it still beats the hands that it beat, sets, whatever, so no gain, just looks more obv, and now we are beat by flushes, and have pairs now drawing against us in theory.
Vs hand most likely can improve, so get $ in time, w/ the SSs; If coolered, so be it.
bet/folding is ridiculous, and prolly folding (.) period
maybe w/ ops read, check folding to a pot sized bet is ok.
V knows OP has a strong hand, so that bet will mean something??
giving a free card here is not optimal at all, esp. when most live Vs are'nt folding black KK here.

seems like "i'm not folding", is an easy way out, sometimes.
kinda like autopiloting, and i think like this in certain situations, and wonder if its a leak, like i'm not thinking everything everything thru enuf, and just going 'snap' constantly (I don't holllywood)
I insta snap called a loose players AI checkraise on the turn recently w/ 55 on a
Ts 4s 4 K board, and he looked at me like i was out of my mind. (he had Js2s) I had just decided i was'nt folding unless a spade hit.
is he right??

then again, some hands just play themselves.
once you put in that initial investment it's hard to play it wrong unless you drop your cards on the floor, and they kill your hand.
If you know how to play it from the get-go, and theres no new info to reevaluate, what is there to think about?
maybe poker IS mindless?

Well, what i mean is this. WE have put 400+ in the pot with only 600 behind. There is most definitely not enuff info. in the hand to specifically place villain on a flush no matter what he does. Therefore we cannot think of folding. He may play AAc just like a flush, or sets, or KKc or QQc and whatever else. So we just now have to figure the highest EV way for the money to go into the pot since its pretty obvious all the money is going in.

We need to know villain's postflop tendencies before we put him on astriclty a flush, is he going to raise/call a flushdraw on this board in a limped pot? Probablly not, I would weight his range to more pair+draws/2pair/sets.

^ exactly you've given no reads

The only way we're folding this is if the turn gets checked through and a club hits on river. That would be a disaster, so we need to make sure it doesn't happen. Only way to ensure that is to lead turn.

I actually think we can b/f $300 here.