Game is $1-$2 but $100 Spread-Limit, where $100 over the previous amount is the most you can bet or raise at any point.

Hero (stack $500) dealt 8c8s in Cutoff. Two EP limpers, Hero raises to $12, Button (stack $200) calls, both blinds call, both limpers call, live poker here we go 6-ways to a flop of

Flop: AsJd4s ($72 pot).
Everyone checks to me, I check, Button bets $12, everyone folds to me, I check-raise to $62

Yay or nay? My thinking: I have all the nut hands, and Villain could easily have an ace-rag—if he had a very strong hand he would bet more than one sixth of the pot to place draws and top pair hands in a tough spot.

Also: is my sizing right? Should it be more or less?

This looks suicidal to me. Why not wait for a hand with more equity? So many combo draws in your range here (Jxss, KQss, etc) that you can bluff with.

If called here you can only bet a maximum of $100 on turn and river? So if villain calls flop, you can only bet ~50% pot on the turn and 25% pot on the river? If that's the case, I can't imagine he would ever fold an ace or a flush draw here. Might even call with a Jack.

I guess we are going off a sizing tell that villain isn't strong here, but this doesn't really seem like a spot you would often check raise for value. You are six ways to a very wet board and there is only one player to act after you on the flop.

Hi—Original plan, once it goes 6 ways to that flop, is in just going to check-fold. Once the Button made his tiny bet I made a new plan, since there are zero hands that want to bet Tiny in this board into 5 opponents.

Right, I understand that. Would you ever check-raise in this spot for value?

What hands are you thinking villain is going to bet-fold here? You mentioned Ace-rag in your post.. do you think villain folds A5 to a check raise?

What's the plan if you get called?

I expect villain to fold weak aces to a check-raise on the flop a very high percentage of the time.

My plan if called is to shut down completely—I’ll assume he has a stronger hand than I thought (44 or A4 of AQ) or he’s just a “not here to fold too pair!” rec player, and further bluffs are setting money on fire. (Unless I catch one of my two remaining outs—I have the 8 of spades, so they’re both clean.)

Actual result:


Funny game!

Wow lol

I wonder if 88 can't just check call flop for this absurd sizing. You need 12.5% equity vs. villain's range to continue when facing a ~17% pot bet. Some times 88 is the best hand (vs. a draw, or a 4 betting for protection) and when it is not you have two clean outs and a backdoor flush draw. For instance, 8c8s has 13.3% equity vs A5hh on this board.

You retain some ability to bluff on later streets as well obviously.

Well, I guess there's at least one?

Your raise is so small that it doesn't have to work very often, but I really doubt anyone folds an ace or flush draw here for $50 more when they can see very many chips in the pot ($146 to be precise). I also expect everyone who checked those kinds of hands on the flop to cold-call to come along for the ride.

That’s a good take. It felt too weak in the moment but I think it was the better line.

Of course, none of it really mattered because Villain couldn’t read his hand anyway, lol.

I get it, the games you play are super nitty and everyone overfolds to your bluffs, but in most games this is super spewy

My one biggest takeaway from LLSNL is this: small bets in multi-way pots mean small hands. It’s become my best way to bluff. Whiff on the flop 4 ways but it checks through. SB then stabs 1/5 pot on the turn, one guy calls….they’re not being “exploitative,” they’re doing this cuz they have mediocre hands and are like “well I guess second pair is worth about $12” so my raising that bet is soooooo +EV in these games. It’s like my #1 way of making money!

Obviously didn’t work here, but, again, as V couldn’t read his hand I was clearly targeting the wrong type of opponent. Although I was right that “small bet = small hand” from HIS perspective; he didn’t know that he actually flopped a monster!

I mean you know these games better than anyone else here, so giving advice to you is kinda pointless. In most 1/2 or 1/3 games you’re up against an ace and getting someone to fold that ace with no equity is just lighting money on fire.