the game is 5/10/20 - we elect to start 4 handed with a straddle....villan is a younger guy who buys in for 2500 - we're only 20-30 hands in but hes opened a fair amount. I haven't done much thus far, just some raises but no 3/4bs. 2k effective.

villan opens to 60 OTB, Im in the SB with A8o and decide to 3bet to 185(think I should of made it 200 but whatever), folds back to villan who calls

Flop (like 400) KcQc9d

Should I cbet here or not? My A isn't a club, and I feel that I need to plan multiple barrels if I decide to. I also think I need to know alot more about my opponent to plan a multi barrel bluff on one of the worst boards to do so. Thoughts? Don't care much about pre or my sizing, just the flop

If you do cbet, you absolutely have to fire a 2nd barrel on brick turns....and it should probably be a pretty big bet......he's just going to be peeling this flop really wide, and may get stubborn on turns if you don't bet big enough.

I'll take it a step further and say that you're probably going to have to triple barrel this board a lot.

I don't mind check/folding here or Cbetting. The board sucks, sure, but without reads on his 3 bet flatting ranges, it's hard to really know. His range could be all PP's, and suited connectors, or it could be super narrow like AK/JJ/QQ, you just don't know.

Which is why, in general, I'm not really a fan of 3 betting light with A9 off in this spot to begin with, but whatever, it's all preference.

I would probably 3 bet him light *in position* for my first 3 bet. With deeper stacks in live NL games, 3 bets get called a lot in late position, and it's just very difficult to play these hands oop against unknowns deep. Obviously I don't mind it if you're comfortable barreling in 3 bet pots and have reads on the villian....

How do you size your 3 barrels in an oop 3 bet pot with only 125 effective bb?

This was my thought too and why I probably wouldn't 3b this hand here. IF we all have 3k, then I see it.

I generally bet half pot as Cbet's in 3 bet pots, if I'm setting up a triple barrel, I'll bet 1/2 ($200), 1/2 to 1/3 on the turn ($325/50), JAM.

Obviously, you don't have a big bet on the river, but in live poker, there's a weird psychological thing that happens where people are like, " that's still $500". Usually, I bet a little less than half pot on the turn, and I usually have a little more than 100 bb's, so it works.

Make sense?

Pre is a real problem IMO. As played, check flop and either fold, raise, or delay c-bet if he checks back. 3 barreling seems v spewy/kind of ridiculous with these stacks.

Oh, I agree 3 barreling is kind of ridiculous, which is kind of why I mentioned that this board is the kind where you almost HAVE to 3 barrel, if you're going to barrel at all.....

good thread.

This is an okay board to c-bet on, and I think it's close. I'm pretty torn and lean towards c/f.

A good question to ask imo is what Villain's pre 3bet call range? also of that range, what is he going to do on this board. Is he going to call pairs + suited Broadways? how about a hand like Axs or suited connectors? The wider you think he calls pre, the more I like barrel. With little info, I like folding slightly more and just cbet on a dryer board

Eh maybe the OOP 3bet vs a random wasn't the greatest, but I still feel in position its fine given his perceived opening range.

Well I think thats the point of what everyone is getting at - no one knows and I shouldnt 3bing without that info especially OOP. As a rule of thumb though with live 5/10, Im sure his flatting range is wider then it should be...

Right, but that's a huge distinction.

Edit: you snuck another post in. I was replying to #10.

C-bet pot-sized, or don't c-bet at all. This is not a good board to fire multiple barrels because it hits your "perceived" 3-bet value range hard.

Vs this player and your image i like a thought and then check.

If checked thru i like a good turn and river barrel if your image is solid so far AND he doesnt know you enough to know you would not check a set here.