+1

If you're still in your first 100hrs at a level I'd highly recommend you try to stay away from winning players. Anyways, I can't draw much from your small sample size but will say that in your first 100hrs you are still very much in an adjustment phase and a learning phase so I wouldn't necessarily expect good results yet.

Tighten up in early position, but dial up your aggression when in position. Don't go into a hand planning to "make moves" but rather have a plan for what your range is, what V's range is, and what you are trying to represent with your bets. Really study what hands you want to 3-bet with and defend 3-bets with as that is a much bigger part of the game at 2/5.


Hell no don't be c-betting ANY type of flop 90% or 100% of the time. It depends on your image, your position, your opponents, stack sizes, your hand, the board texture, etc. Even at 1/2 or 1/3 this is going to start backfiring as regs catch on and start floating or raising you til it burns. Sometimes you should be checking good hands on the flop for deception anyway if the flop whiffs V ranges.

As others said there's not much specific we can say unless you start posting hands from 2/5... hands you won and lost, hands you think you played well and hands you think you botched.

Little early to say what is happening here. Start taking detailed notes on the hands you play, against who and why. Maybe in the mean time tighten up just a bit and slightly increase your bet sizing when you do.....I am also not a fan of the title....It is not that you can't adjust...you just have not....you may not even need too. Time to evaluate your play and make some honest observations....

Won't make it in poker. I've been a pro for 4 years.

And fwiw, I'm talking about the other killers at the table, not the nitregs making 1BB an hour that you play against at 1-2.

If you play 2-5 in any decent city then there are going to be big winners in your game. All the winning online players from years past are going to play in the biggest game running. You will not get in enough spots against these guys to ever exploit them, and if you do they will adjust back. Example: Oh he c-bets too much, I think I'll check-raise bluff him now. Guess what? Get caught one time.. now you've got a thinking player targeting you for the next 6 months, seat changing to get position on you, 3-betting you lite. It's a stupid leveling war that is going to f*ck with every decision you make everytime you are in the hand with this guy, even when its multiway. It's not worth the tiny bit of EV you gained by targeting the guy.

Also, from your posting advice you are legit one of the biggest nit, abc players on this forum. I mean it's usually correct, but it's also in response to the 1-2 kiddie stakes thread that you are involved in. So to think you could make any money in tough games is laughable. We all need spewy fish in the game otherwise the game is dead. You aren't a hero, where do you think the $ comes from? Why do you think online poker has shrunken so much?

Very true and solid advice.

1-2 and 1-3 has no 3-betting at all, so this dynamic is completely new to the newer players but is a huge part of 2-5.

If you have a great strategy and approach to the game, you shouldn't be avoiding anyone. If you don't, study and make it happen. Letting good players have their way with you is so -EV.

Yeah this is the live low stakes thread, not the kiddie stakes thread.

Bodybuilder plays in real games.

1/2 = filled with recreational players + gamblers + fishes, even regs have a weaker game
when you move up to 2/5
the game is totally different, but if you've got the basics nailed down
if you pay attention and know thy opponents, game shouldn't be hard

mentally memorize hands that players played and went to showdown, know how they play
know what's in their mind/logic
then their game will become more faced up

and say for example you've been a nit and won easily on 1/2, this might not be the case if no one pays up when they notice you're a nit
lots of players moving up either spew(blindlessly aggro) or being too nitty too scared of opponent raises etc.
it's like their game changes completely and have no clue what they are doing when they move up

Your "advice" saying people should soft play other winning players at the table is the worst advice itt by far.

There's a big difference between being a great winning pro and sitting there waiting for the nuts trying to stack the fish. How have you been a pro for 4 years with a "Zero bluffing percentage" which is what you claimed in another thread?. Maybe it works in some 1/2 games but there's a lot more to becoming a good winning professional player than sitting there waiting for the nuts to stack fish.

How do you know how and what stakes I play? Because I answer posts in llsnl, I'm the biggest nit on the forum? You shouldn't use personal attacks to try to justify what you said was correct - you were 100% wrong. No one should soft play other winning players just because they're a winning player. Beginning players should try not to get tangled up with them but saying to "soft play" them was really horrible advice (which I'm going to call out for the sake of the players who are seriously looking to take their game to the next level).

Nonsense. Money is money and you shouldn't care where it comes from. Of course we go for the fish and wouldn't play against only regs, but once we're sitting at the table we're mostly playing each decision independently, and there's rarely a reason to pass up on a +EV spot just because it's against a reg, which is what you're advocating when you advise to soft play regs.

Yeah that's a small sample size. I mean you could be screwing up but for example I've put in 50ish hours at 1/2 this month and my hourly is like...-$50/hr. Lost 2-3 big coin flips (QQ v. AK, AJcc v. AK on AXXcc) gotten rivered in 90% fav situations 3 times, gotten KK v. AA, flopped K high flush v. Ace high flush etc. Down $1.2k. it happens.

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Good post.

2/5 is still a small stakes rake trap. Gl to anybody who thinks paying the casino ~ a bb an orbit to softplay regs while waiting to chop up a "whale"s buy in eight ways is the secret to life.

Another thing to note is if bodybuilder were a fraction as sharp as he thinks he is he'd know posting what he did on probably the most access ed poker site in the world is a ridiculously bad idea for the health of his "whale" dependent scenario.

this x 100.

I understand if you want to challenge yourself and have new experiences in poker, but the discipline to play lower stakes is the same type of discipline that you need for your bankroll. You are not looking to hit home runs, you are looking for consistant wins.

Sure, intuitively you know that your poker game will have to evolve over time if you want to get better. But the discipline and patience to max your winnings at an easy game is also a skill.

To say samples are LOL understates things. If you play long enough, it doesn't matter how good you are or how well you play, you will run into a stretch that will either bust you or make you want to quit. Probably more than once. I lost 20bi in a ~100hr month, and I essentially KNOW I didn't spew more than 3 of them. I've also seen players much better than I do even worse. Variance can be a cruel, indifferent mother.

As for why you aren't winning yet (beyond the aforementioned LOL sample) at 2-5, it is an entirely different ballgame. Playing against guys who are scared to lose $100 versus playing many players who are unfazed to dust off $2k is apples to oranges. Not that 2-5 is by any means the pinnacle of poker, but you're basically saying, "Well I crushed it in the minors; why can't I make it in the big leagues?"

Most of the adjustments people have mentioned are part of the answer. Just to reiterate/potentially add something new (didn't read all posts):
- Tightening up esp. in EP was one of my biggest leaks.
- Delayed C-betting and being able to defend your checks enough are also yuge.
- Defending less in multiway pots is the way to go.
- Frequently just cold calling speculative hands is a sure fire way to lose money.
- Trying to be overly concerned with balance vs mouth breathers will make less $.

Anyway those are a few pretty common ones I observe regularly. GL out there and come back with a genuine sample.

8 ways? Lol way to give yourself away that you only play in 9max full ring nit fest games. If you're doing it right you should be in short-handed games with the late night degens who refuse to go home until they to punt off their stack.

Also,even in a full ring it's usually only one other really, really good player and occasionally a few abc winners. But if you game select well you can mostly avoid games with more than 2 "good" players.

This is PSA to all of the tight regs. If you find all you guys clustered at one table, get a freaking table change or casino hop to spread out lol. If you really enjoy the "challenge" so much go play online poker and see how NOT fun it is to play against 0 fish and 5 other thinking players.


Playbig mentioned I have a 0% bluff frequency. While this is lol ridicously false ,If I'm ever going to run a big bluff (other than a standard c-bet) it's usually going to be against an abc or a nit reg old lady. Still, the pots I win bluffing are TRIVIALLY SMALL compared to the massive pots won against the fish when I'm holding a nutted hand.

If I'm heads up against a good LAG who is more fearless than me (and probably better than me) I'm pretty much shutting down if my c-bet gets called. Lots of pot controlling. Not gonna 3-bet lite to isolate. Nothing fancy. The whole situation of being heads up with this guy is not very +EV and not part of my strategy to make money.


Why do you think Gobbledygeeek, the biggest nit on the forum, makes $22 an hour (over a 4k hour sample size) at the lowest stakes game? He's avoiding any difficult spots and getting paid off repeatedly because his opponents are terrible and just looking to gamble. This should tell you guys a lot about how to make $ in NL cash games.

So which one is the key to riches?

Playing in high variance, short-handed games, or nut-peddling vs. the early afternoon crowd?

Or are you just spewing a merged range of nonsense?

^ Playing against fish obviously.....It's better to have them ALL to yourself in short-handed games then to play 1 hand an hour against them in full ring. But if the fishies wanna break the game to have a full table then I'll go along with them. Im not gonna tap the glass or ruffle any feathers.

Who the f in their right mind ever advocated playing early afternoon games with OMC and OWC (old woman coffee) with their 300 short stacks? If the games magically get deep because God Forbid, someone added money to their stack after losing, or if a whale happened to show up early that day, then they can be worthwhile but Im not going to risk showing up that early to get bogged down in a nit fest. Fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold "Chop?" Next hand. Fold, Fold, Fold, Fold, fold, fold, fold, "Chop?"


Wash, rinse, repeat.

Have you seen his win rate in the last 1000 hours? His win rate has steadily declined each 1000 hour sample. A good very experienced player should be seeing the exact opposite effect. What used to work when everyone was clueless doesnt work anywhere near as well 3-4 yrs later when everyone sucks less.

No, Playbig didn't mention it, you did.

There's a lot more to the game than waiting for and hitting flops and hands.

My advice to the OP is to stay in 1/3 for now to build your bankroll but there's nothing wrong with taking shots at 2/5 every now and then.

^^^^^
Isnt bad advice, you dont want your decsions to be based on your roll.
It also comes to game selection (if possible)
I have seen some very juicy 1/2-1/3 games dont limit yourself to 2/5 because you want to be a "2/5" player
Playing against better players isnt the worst thing in the world,but if you have the choice in the end it really is all about making your bankroll bigger


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Ideally you should want to make it to 5/10 NL

Playing low variance nitty nut* peddling style is

1) limits your growth as a player
Anyone can fold all day hoping to stack a Donk at the same time making a nutty hand.

2) makes you a hated regular in your games and you ll never be invited to private games

3) I never chop blinds with fish or regs
No one live really knows how to play from the blinds with any skill on average

4) use 1/2 1/3 to field your “plays” for higher limits
You can make up your mistakes easily at this level

If you want any time of freedom or a “professional” vis poker
You need to keep your eye on 5/10$ And staying there