7 handed.
Middle of the afternoon.

Hero: ($450) I've got a bit of a loose image after I called a 85% psb with second pair, no kicker, and shipped the turn when I hit 2p, and got called and stacked a V for ~$175. I raised 4 of the last 15 hands but I've had cards every time. None have gone to show down, I won 3 of them with cBets or turn barrels. One I gave up and folded flop when donked into. Got shown trips. (Thanks for betting!)

V: ($285) Seems almost competent, but not quite. He calls too much, but he makes comments to me after the hands about how he realizes this. I've never played with him before today, but has made a few comments to imply that he thinks. (He just doesn't always act on his thoughts. )
Earlier in the session I raised to $15 with KJs, went 4 ways to the flop of J73r, chkd to me and I bet $35, all folded to him who folded and showed J9s. I'm not sure what this tells us, but it could be relevant.


Pre flop:
1 limps
A few folds
V limps
I limp button with 45
SB completes
BB checks

Flop ($10): 268
3 checks
V bets $20
Hero?

All others look like they want to fold. No one here is capable of sending reverse tells with a strong hand. I've played with the other villains before.

With as deep as we are, can this ever be a call, or is it always a fold?

What sort of range do we give this guy?

Fold. This call is purely for Implied odds, ldo, given the overbet. And your outs are largely action killers. AND you have 3 left to act even if they "look" like they'll fold.
Allow him his $10 pot.

Oh... and his range can't be narrowed down all that much, but is heavily weighted to NOT air. 2ps, 99-JJ, combo draws, nutted hearts, sets are all possible and we do poorly against this with immediate or implied odds.

And V has 285, we are Not deep

Fold pre. Fold flop.

54o is not good enough to limp behind on the button.

Fold pre and fold flop. 54s might be another Story.

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A nice double belly buster flop for your hand. Two of your outs are tainted, as they are either action killers or complete a possible flush draw. I'm not sure I can fold here though on the flop. The large overbet could indicate two pair or a set that may pay is off if we hit the turn. I think I would call one street, to hit your non heart 3, or 7 and fold to the turn bet unimproved. I don't mind a fold here, but given Hero's read of villain paying off too much, I don't think a call is that bad.

Raise on the button or fold pre.

Fold flop.

Villains range on this flop with a $20 bet into a $10 pot looks A8, 99 TT JJ. Dont think you are going to stack him seems scared so low implied odds.

fold pre. not much to gain from limping 54o on the button.

fold flop. not much to gain by drawing to a double gutterball, with a FD out there, in a $10 pot.

Fold pf.

As played, if you're thinking about calling here, why wouldn't you consider raising as a semi-bluff? If he's capable of folding tpnk to a cbet, surely a raise here gets some FE, and makes stacking him much easier if you do hit one of your 6 clean outs. (I'd probably think about this for a few seconds, decide it's -EV, and fold!)

The only way I would be continuing here is if I were confident enough in my reads that the other players would fold behind me that I could call and bluff if a heart falls on the turn. (Obviously I'd also have to know that he would be scared of the heart falling.) I think in general, and especially given the size of the bet, too much has to go right for you to call here.

If you do not want to try to bluff this guy on a scare card if one falls on the turn, fold now.

People who want to fold preflop with this hand but who would have limped behind if they were suited: why is being suited so great here? If I'm limping one I'm limping the other. There might be some table dynamics where I fold both, and there might be some where I raise 54s and fold 54o, but I can't imagine a table dynamic with these stack depths where I'm happy to limp 54s but fold 54o.

don't fold this pre. you guys are insane.

I'd say I do t hate the limp on the button but at my game the button pays 1$. So I'd say raise or fold pre. On the flop people seem to forget we are on the button so we have position for the rest of your hand. I say te over bet reps strength of 2 pair min trying to end the hand. If we could know this was a set for sure I wouldn't hate a call IP and see what happens. Problem is we only have 3 clean outs to the nuts so I'd say its a clear fold on the flop. You need to e a lot deeper for tha deceptive 3 outer to be profitable.

+1. Limping is totally fine here, especially when stacks are deeper.

um, its a limped pot and u have 45o. What exactly are you hoping to happen? The pot likely wont amount to much if u do hit, and if it does, and you end up catching 2nd best (which in a multi way limped pot and a hand like this, you have a good chance at a 2nd best situation), are you goin to complain you got coolered?

Lol so many "what-ifs"...it's $2 and we're deep otb. If we hit our hand it's well disguised, if we miss we let the hand go. I'm not suggesting calling 3 streets with bottom pair here, and I probably don't get too attached to 2p either.

Why won't the pot amount to much if we hit? It's not unlikely at all for us to hit our straight and have someone hit a set or 2p (people like to limp with pocket pairs and connected cards). The whole benefit of playing hands like these is that it's difficult for someone to put us on a range - we're more likely to be coolering people than vice-versa.

We saw this guy c/f TPNK previously. Now he is betting 2x the pot in a limped pot? To me this bet screams "I have 99/TT/A8 and I don't want another card coming off." Why not raise? I think you can profitably raise it here and be able to take it down sometimes OTF if he makes a tight fold, and take it down OTT unless he improves a likely 2 or 5 outer. If he 3-bets he obv has a monster and you can fold, unless he sizes badly like everybody does and gives you odds to hit. (you make it 60, he minraises to 100 and gives you like 4:1 plus implied)

Folding is probably best. But I like raising over calling. I think we can force a fold OTF or OTT at least half the time and we have 8 outs for virtual nuts.

The possibility of him having a monster is exactly why I don't want to raise. We have 3 outs to the nuts, 3 more to the third nuts, and 2 more to possibly the best hand (and we might have the hearts as phantom outs).

I think if we were heads-up and the bet were offering better odds this is a clear call (but sometimes to bluff later, not always to draw). If Villain has a monster we sometimes improve to beat him and take his whole stack. If Villain has a weak hand and slows down on a heart we can take the pot. Calling seems like the best way to play against both the strong and weak parts of Villain's range.

The reasons not to call are that we aren't heads-up and also the bet is too big. Those tilt me toward a fold, not a raise.

I guess it's nit day at LLSNL.

1rd... given how you've described the table, I'm probably playing 50%+ hands from the button when its limped to me. 54o definitely plays. Only two questions: 1) Do I raise, and 2) if so, how much. I'm not telling you how to play your hands, but that's how I'd do it.

2th... immediate pot odds are 30:20, 1.5:1. Let's take the following assumptions:
-- Villain isn't likely to have a flush draw
-- Hero needs to hit one of his 8 straight outs to win the hand

You are 5:1 against to hit your straight on the turn, which means you don't have the pot odds to call here.

If you think Villain will x/c or try to x/r the turn, so that you can see a free river, you need 1.9:1 in pot odds to draw to your straight. Again, you are not getting the direct odds.

I'd say its pretty unlikely that Villain is going to give you a free look at the river.

I'd also say its quite likely that Villain actually does have a flush draw here.

So, unfortunately, this is a fold on the flop.

(ETA: Since Villain likely has a FD, and you have position, you could entertain the thought of calling his flop and turn bets, with the hope that he'll check the river if he misses his flush, and you can shove-bluff the river... but why not just fold here and play the next hand?)

54o is like the 80th percentile hand ffs

No, it isn't. It's in the top 50%.

Preflop you can play almost any hand from the button for a limp. We have a connector that should be easy to play postflop. I don't think it's worth debating.

Interesting question about the flop. My instinct is to fold but considering how deep the stacks are, it might be worth continuing.

How likely is it that villain is:
very strong and won't fold if you hit your straight?
medium-strong and/or likely to blink on the turn if you call the flop?
semi-bluffing with a better draw?

I like Lapidator's response.

Forget the notion of "top X percentile hand".

Consider 72o vs. 32o.

Which one would you rather shove a small stack with?

Which one would you rather see a cheap flop with?

When I said, "I'm playing 50%+ hands from the button", I didn't mean the top 50 percentile of hands. I meant, in actuality, I will play about half of the hands I'm dealt.

I'd call this PF in most loose-passive games. Unless you have history that says otherwise the blinds rarely raise and you have a hand with some potential in position. Take your shot, since opponents at this level will often pay you off when you hit your monster.

With the action on the flop, fold. You might be able to push him off a hand, but with the overbet you have to risk a lot relative to the pot size to find out. It just isn't worth it.

You aren't getting odds to see the turn right now, so calling doesn't work for me, either. And while he might stack off if a 3 comes, a 7 will likely kill your action so your implied odds aren't great.

Sometimes the best use of position is to get out of a pot cheaply - I'd take advantage of it here.

Preflop depends a lot on your postflop skill. Its thin for sure however I can make a good case for limping ATC on the button vs weak limpers if you play well post.

As played, i would call that bet all day. its the perfect setup and you have the perfect disguised hand. CALL

Its obvious he loves his hand. He isnt folding anytime soon. This makes it quite likely we get paid. If you act convincingly like ur thinking of raising the flop, you can even get a check (pure check or attempted check raise) on the turn--giving you a free river. Now he puts you on a flush draw or pair and bets the river in event you hit. He will call your river raise for quite a few reasons if he is strong at all.

+1E8