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can I FOLD this river?  Is it wrong not to raise? can I FOLD this river?  Is it wrong not to raise?

11-03-2011 , 10:36 AM
Playing 1/2 live cash game.

I am in MP, villain is UTG+1

PF
UTG+1 raises to $6.
HERO calls $6 with 7 8
CO calls $6
Button calls 6$

Flop: 8 8 9
everyone checks

Turn: 4
Villain Checks
Hero bets $18
CO/Button fold
Villain Calls

River: 10
Villain bets $22
Hero calls $22

Last edited by Rapini; 11-03-2011 at 10:43 AM. Reason: Moved from B&M to LLNLHE.
can I FOLD this river?  Is it wrong not to raise? Quote
11-03-2011 , 11:13 AM
mm.... dont know why u consider a fold. obviously u can't fold. and ur hand isn't strong enough to raise on the river since u just charge them 18$ to see the turn and river combinbed so all sorts of hands strong enough to call ur raise just got there. call the river and take note.

i would definitely bet the flop to thin down/ build the pot as well
can I FOLD this river?  Is it wrong not to raise? Quote
11-03-2011 , 11:33 AM
Fold pre for sure

As played bet flop turn and river
can I FOLD this river?  Is it wrong not to raise? Quote
11-03-2011 , 11:51 AM
gotta bet this flop.

river is an ez call.
can I FOLD this river?  Is it wrong not to raise? Quote
11-03-2011 , 12:00 PM
bet flop

also its only $22 OTR you have to call.

Pretty obv villain has 56 but lols just a cooler
can I FOLD this river?  Is it wrong not to raise? Quote
11-03-2011 , 12:40 PM
Not sure why I'm even responding cuz this is a lame write up (no stacks sizes, no reads). But I'm super bored at work. So assuming like 100 BBs...

I fold preflop. Too many people to act yet behind us (could still face a 3bet which we'll have to fold to, we have no idea if we're going 6way to the flop or HU, etc), plus we'll have terrible position preflop. We want to be in LP with a guaranteed multiway pot before calling a raise here, IMO.

I have no idea why we checked the flop. The board is super drawy. I bet close to pot and go from there.

We can't fold the river since we're getting 4:1 and have trips. I would also probably just call since my guess is there aren't a lot of worse hands that call a raise on this board, but this is also fairly dependent on stack sizes (and the smaller stacks are the more comfortably we can raise).

GcluelessNLnoobG
can I FOLD this river?  Is it wrong not to raise? Quote
11-03-2011 , 12:47 PM
I prefer a 3bet preflop to isolate this type of hand. If ima play it I don't want to be OOP. Easy hand to check fold if you miss or play for stacks when you hit.
can I FOLD this river?  Is it wrong not to raise? Quote
11-03-2011 , 12:50 PM
Repeat after me:
ALWAYS BET/RAISE YOUR TRIPS. ALWAYS. ALWAYS.

They might check it on TV, but that's because those guys are all like 8th level thinking players. Even then it doesn't work ("I knew you had trips when you checked").

The flop is sooted and connected, so you've got a great hand, but very vulnerable. Why let them draw for free?

Even when you don't get outdrawn (as you likely did here, else why the thread) you lose a ton of value. Those aforementioned draws are less likely to call on the turn and certainly won't on the river.

Also, you need to know when you're in trouble (because, again, trips can be vulnerable). If Villain re-raises, or smooth-calls then raises big on the turn in the face of your obvious strength, you might realize you're up against 99 or 44, but if you slow-play like you do here, you won't find out till after calling the big river over-bet.

As played, you've gotta call, but then kick yourself for either a)letting Villain draw for cheap/free, or b)losing value.
can I FOLD this river?  Is it wrong not to raise? Quote
11-03-2011 , 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42-fletchers
I prefer a 3bet preflop to isolate this type of hand. If ima play it I don't want to be OOP. Easy hand to check fold if you miss or play for stacks when you hit.
Just wow. So you're going to raise to what, 15 or 18? Preflop. With 8-high. From Middle Position. Oh, never mind, its sooted

What if the flop comes something like K82. Still want to play for stacks? Your standard cbet will be 25-30, do you really want to put that kinda money in with second pair?

These sooted connectors don't really win that often, so you need big implied odds to play them, which is why you want to play them multi-way.
can I FOLD this river?  Is it wrong not to raise? Quote
11-03-2011 , 01:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyLive
bet flop

also its only $22 OTR you have to call.

Pretty obv villain has 56 but lols just a cooler
btw. 56 is not a cooler. just 6 high lol. i kno i was thinking 56 was a straight there for a while too lol
can I FOLD this river?  Is it wrong not to raise? Quote
11-03-2011 , 01:40 PM
No reason at all to fold, but raise is bit of a question. I think this is one of the hands where your raise will only be called with a better hand.
can I FOLD this river?  Is it wrong not to raise? Quote
11-03-2011 , 01:41 PM
raise/fold
can I FOLD this river?  Is it wrong not to raise? Quote
11-03-2011 , 03:23 PM
Worse than suggesting you 3bet with this hand, dude is advocating a check fold (really? After a 3!?) when you miss with it...which is, obviously, most of the time.
can I FOLD this river?  Is it wrong not to raise? Quote
11-03-2011 , 03:30 PM
Sorry I'm new to posting hands. Both stacks had about 150 bbs. Both playing solid poker. Only big hand villain has been in is when he hit the nut straight on the turn a day AA shoved in to him. I consider folding here because I don't see this player bluffing in to me as he knew I was strong. He know I will check the river with the 10 coming so I thought he was betting for maximum value.

I call, villain shows 99.
can I FOLD this river?  Is it wrong not to raise? Quote
11-03-2011 , 04:29 PM
You played it badly. The proof is that you didn't lose your entire stack in that hand. You're scared of two specific hands, 99 and TT. You should have had most of your stack in by the time the T hit anyway. If your opponent has 99, you just got coolered. Rebuy and retry.

24 in the pot on the flop. You have 3 streets to get 294 in the middle. Pot 24 and keep one player, so the turn has 72. Bet 72. The river will have 216 and you have 198 behind. Bet it and go.

End result, you lose your stack, but dammit, at least you got your whole stack in play when you're EXTREMELY likely to be the favorite.
can I FOLD this river?  Is it wrong not to raise? Quote
11-03-2011 , 05:22 PM
Preflop is whatever. You need to know why ur calloing though. Is it because he's tight and you have good implied odds. Or is it because he's not tight and you don't actually need a real hand to win pots? If it's the former, I think calling is fine. If it's the latter, I'd like a 3bet since you won't have position a lot (unless co/btn) are tight.

I'd bet flop. There are draws + floats, pairs that call. As played I think the river is close. He's betting 1/3rd pot so I'm very tempted to raise. NEVER FOLDING.
can I FOLD this river?  Is it wrong not to raise? Quote
11-03-2011 , 05:27 PM
Well played besides the flop
can I FOLD this river?  Is it wrong not to raise? Quote
11-03-2011 , 07:25 PM
To those questioning the 3bet, do you only 3bet big pairs or suited paint? Kinda exploitable yeah. With position in a heads up pot this is an easy hand to play. All his low pairs likely fold to a cbet on high card flop and big cards play pretty straight forward postflop if it comes 8hi which is over half the deck btw. Of course this hand plays better multiway bcuz of implied odds but not OOP. Or maybe I'm just a spew tard that likes to play big pots
can I FOLD this river?  Is it wrong not to raise? Quote
11-03-2011 , 08:22 PM
Balancing your 3-bet range against clueless 1/2 opponents is -EV. 1/2 players have a fold to 3-bet of around 0%.
can I FOLD this river?  Is it wrong not to raise? Quote
11-03-2011 , 09:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ractar
You played it badly. The proof is that you didn't lose your entire stack in that hand. You're scared of two specific hands, 99 and TT. You should have had most of your stack in by the time the T hit anyway. If your opponent has 99, you just got coolered. Rebuy and retry.

24 in the pot on the flop. You have 3 streets to get 294 in the middle. Pot 24 and keep one player, so the turn has 72. Bet 72. The river will have 216 and you have 198 behind. Bet it and go.

End result, you lose your stack, but dammit, at least you got your whole stack in play when you're EXTREMELY likely to be the favorite.
Disaggree, and my first post explains why. Had he been properly aggro otf (betting ~psb, 20ish here), then peeled back a bit on the turn (1/2-3/4psb, 40-50), he'd probably realize he's either outkicked or against a boat (because Villain likely raises here, and even a smooth-call shows he's likely got more than a SD/FD), and could get away with losing only 1/3 his stack.
can I FOLD this river?  Is it wrong not to raise? Quote
11-03-2011 , 11:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by XTPCZ
Balancing your 3-bet range against clueless 1/2 opponents is -EV. 1/2 players have a fold to 3-bet of around 0%.
yea, but the fold a lot latter in the hand (if you are picking the right villains)
can I FOLD this river?  Is it wrong not to raise? Quote

      
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