Quote:
Originally Posted by Aulm
It was certainly a mistake to not raise PF. My logic at the time was that I have the kind of hand that can flop well, and the guys behind me were all loose fish, especially the button, who had called a lot of my raises, and played sticky post-flop.
So limp to let in as many fish as possible, and avoid building a pot with a marginal hand. Then if I hit hard, will increase chances of getting a lot of action. Maybe this would have made more sense if it was folded to me on the button, or if there were multiple limpers in front of me, but I was in the hijack (not CO as posted) so raising was chance to buy pos.
AP I defend my flop raise as being the correct action. Had Villain 1 not got in the way, I would have likely won with a turn barrel against Villain 2 who ended up folding.
AP I called and Villain 1 showed down 76.
So regarding preflop: this hand is pretty mediocre. It sometimes makes top pair, but when it does, there's two or three overcards that can come and make you no longer have top pair, and your top pair is never TPTK, at best it's TP3K. If you have a visual read that nobody will raise you then okay, limp in, especially if as you say raising would just bloat the pot and they're all calling anyway. But I mean, in most rake structures, folding is fine too if a raise isn't going to accomplish what you want (either a heads up pot in position or stealing the blinds). It's suited, which is good, but again, you're unlikely to make the nut flush, so you're not really going to have a hand where you want to bomb money into an unraised pot postflop.
On the flop: This is why all of the above is true. Your V2 has now bet 2x the pot. While you have top pair, you have a serious RIO problem -- there's a lot of bad turn/river cards for you, you don't know which ones they are, and you don't even know that you're ahead right now. Your raise makes it so either V can shove as a 2/3s PSB. Do you really want to play for stacks with one mediocre pair? Because this is how you play for stacks with one mediocre pair.
On the turn: Look up "the baluga theorem" either via google or on this very forum. You've already told the story of your hand on the flop -- and this V1 still wants to ship it in. You're very infrequently going to be good, and even the few times you're good, you're actually only a small favorite against a hand like A8ss (they can catch a 9, spade, or ace to outdraw you).
Anyways preflop I can maybe see -- especially if you have a read due to hand movements or whatever that you're going to get one fold, one call, one complete, and one check. Postflop you just don't have enough hand. "Don't go broke in an unraised pot" is a piece of wisdom that goes all the way back to Doyle's Super System (or before). Your objective was to flop KJ9 and get them broke, not flop T76 and get broke yourself against 89. You did not hit this flop hard enough, so don't put all $130 in.
If you end up getting to play for about two small bets ($5 into $8, then $15 into $23 three ways), that would be roughly the right amount of money to play for postflop UI. When somebody else makes it $15 on the flop, that's the grand total I want to play for with this amount of hand. Calling is okay, I suppose, but you've got two streets left that you want to go check/check check/check and two hands yet to speak. Between all of that, I'd want to fold on this flop. Unless you tell me V2 is massively spewy (which is the opposite of your read, IMO), you can just find a better spot to win money.