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Call off our stack preflop w/ KQs? Call off our stack preflop w/ KQs?

04-07-2024 , 10:07 PM
1/3 NLHE 8 handed.

V1 - Competent LAG. Plays full time and plays winning poker. I've seen him tilt once and get much much looser but mostly he plays an aggressive winning game. He can 3-bet hands like KTs, cold 4-bet KJs, stuff like this. He has a x/raising range and gets creative sometimes. He over estimates his fold equity and borders on spew sometimes as well. Covers. HJ.

V2 - Losing asian guy that plays loose passive bleeding down until his breaking point is reached whereupon he starts shoving hands like QJs pre for 300$ over a 10$ open. In this hand he has reached that point. V1 would know this. 150$ BTN.

H - Just sat down and hasn't played a hand. V1 knows me well. Try to play TAG but who knows what V1 thinks of me. Only bought in for 100 BBs. 300$. CO.

---

Folds to V1 who opens 15, H decides to just call this time with K Q, V2 shoves, folds back to V1 who reshoves. Hero?
Call off our stack preflop w/ KQs? Quote
04-08-2024 , 01:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupidbanana
1/3 NLHE 8 handed.

V1 - Competent LAG. Plays full time and plays winning poker. I've seen him tilt once and get much much looser but mostly he plays an aggressive winning game. He can 3-bet hands like KTs, cold 4-bet KJs, stuff like this. He has a x/raising range and gets creative sometimes. He over estimates his fold equity and borders on spew sometimes as well. Covers. HJ.

V2 - Losing asian guy that plays loose passive bleeding down until his breaking point is reached whereupon he starts shoving hands like QJs pre for 300$ over a 10$ open. In this hand he has reached that point. V1 would know this. 150$ BTN.

H - Just sat down and hasn't played a hand. V1 knows me well. Try to play TAG but who knows what V1 thinks of me. Only bought in for 100 BBs. 300$. CO.

---

Folds to V1 who opens 15, H decides to just call this time with K Q, V2 shoves, folds back to V1 who reshoves. Hero?
Fold. KQ often dominated here IMO. Two all ins in front of you. If you call, you’re hoping for a flip at best?
Don’t mind the flat preflop sometimes, especially allowing fish to come into the pot, just sucks to have to play oop and in bw preflop aggressor and the fish.
But definitely leaning towards a fold preflop after both players shove.
Call off our stack preflop w/ KQs? Quote
04-08-2024 , 06:08 AM
You need 38 percent to call this off. Just put their ranges into a calculator and see if you get the right odds.

I would say not even close, since I'm guessing you have about 30 percent against both of them, but you should have a better idea of their ranges than I do. But to me this looks like an easy fold, with 15 invested against two all-ins.
Call off our stack preflop w/ KQs? Quote
04-08-2024 , 09:55 AM
I doubt you'd even ask this unless they both showed something weird, but this is a dirt easy fold. Yes you are capped and V2 likely knows this, but V1 is uncapped and likely to call if he's "at his breaking point," which means V2s range should only include things he's fine with V1 calling.

Sure, this includes a lot of PPs that you are flipping with, but it also includes a lot of hands that dominate you. Getting to over 1/3 equity against their ranges is almost impossible here.

Last edited by Garick; 04-08-2024 at 11:14 AM. Reason: V# confusion
Call off our stack preflop w/ KQs? Quote
04-08-2024 , 10:38 AM
V2 is the one who shoved first. But yea. I thought about AQ AK so folded.

Spoiler:
Board came KQXYZ and V1 had TT V2 had 88
Call off our stack preflop w/ KQs? Quote
04-08-2024 , 10:47 AM
Spoiler:
results don't matter and quite frankly I'm surprised that you're second guessing yourself just because you woulda got there. This is an easy peezy fold to the two jam's pre.
Call off our stack preflop w/ KQs? Quote
04-08-2024 , 11:17 AM
Normally I'd say too soon for results, but I don't think this thread was going to get a lot of dissenting opinions anyway. Sure, the hands shown were within reasonable ranges, but V1 could also have had QQ+, and both could have had AQ/AK, so lots of hands in their ranges that dominate you. Good fold.

Last edited by Garick; 04-08-2024 at 12:42 PM. Reason: typo
Call off our stack preflop w/ KQs? Quote
04-08-2024 , 11:32 AM
How big is your player pool? A recurring theme of your threads seems to be "I've got this read on a player so I make a massive deviation from standard play to compensate" and unless you are playing with these guys very regularly and have rock solid reads that's almost certainly a bad idea. Here you have a very modest hand. One player makes a massive shove with a range that you judge could include hands like QJs, and another player, who may or may not have the same read as you, judges his hand strong enough to play against that (and indeed to reshove). It's extremely unlikely that both players have weak hands here - you have King-high and are very easily dominated as others have said.
Call off our stack preflop w/ KQs? Quote
04-08-2024 , 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by moxterite
How big is your player pool? A recurring theme of your threads seems to be "I've got this read on a player so I make a massive deviation from standard play to compensate" and unless you are playing with these guys very regularly and have rock solid reads that's almost certainly a bad idea. Here you have a very modest hand. One player makes a massive shove with a range that you judge could include hands like QJs, and another player, who may or may not have the same read as you, judges his hand strong enough to play against that (and indeed to reshove). It's extremely unlikely that both players have weak hands here - you have King-high and are very easily dominated as others have said.

To answer your question: V2 has all PPs, KXs and AXs here. V1 is more nutted but probably as wide as ATo KJs. People in this forum are so used to a loose passive dogma that "any raise is strength" which isnt really true in my game which is a lot looser and gambly than others I think... not as much as texas but still.
Call off our stack preflop w/ KQs? Quote
04-09-2024 , 08:58 AM
Short stack push is generally not nutted. It is bad to push with 88, but you will see that sort of thing. Overshove by reg should never be anything KQs is ahead of. Does he ever do this this with KJs or QJs??? There is no way to construct ranges for which this would be a call. You would be in for more against the reg, who is never light. It would be a more interesting post if you asked for a calling range. I would call JJ+/AK. but usually 3! those hands myself. You definitely could go a little lighter than that. No matter how loose their ranges are, it is ridiculous to consider calling with KQs. Very results-oriented post.

Last edited by deuceblocker; 04-09-2024 at 09:06 AM.
Call off our stack preflop w/ KQs? Quote

      
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