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Bottom Set Facing Aggression Bottom Set Facing Aggression

01-13-2015 , 01:20 PM
Playing 2/5 at Parx, have been playing TAG and have won several $100-$200 pots running up my stack from $500 to $1200. The following hand is something I've run into in the past. Looking for general advice on small PP's as well as how to play this hand.

V is 40-ish white male, seems to limp a bit preflop and can bet big postflop, but does not seem overtly aggressive

EP limp, MP limp, H limps with 22 in LP, blinds limp.

Flop: 642r ($25)
EP bets 20, V in MP with about $1k calls, H raises to 75, blinds and EP fold, V calls.

Turn: J ($195)
V bets $150, H calls.

River: 7($495)
V bets $325, H makes a crying call, expecting to either be way ahead or lose set over set.

Spoiler:
V shows 53
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01-13-2015 , 01:38 PM
What kind of hands is V showing down? Given V description this is a bigger set or 53. Hard to imagine this particular v will spazz with a pair + SD combo. Tough laying this down but I think you gotta fold the river. Not many villains are capable of bluffing/turning marginal hands into a bluff while barreling 3 streets.
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01-13-2015 , 01:49 PM
Calls the flop raise and donks 2 streets, I can't see us ahead of much.

In a vacuum I'd probably let it go. Unless I've got some history with V, and a soiled soul read, I'm folding.
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01-13-2015 , 01:50 PM
just fold and cry.
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01-13-2015 , 06:01 PM
On the river, it doesn't matter if you are way ahead or way behind, it only matters if you have the best hand or not

I actually prefer a bigger flop bet for value and to define your hand. If he continues playing a strong line like he ends up doing, you can be more sure you are beat
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01-13-2015 , 06:06 PM
Flop raise should definitely be more. I actually like Hero's line otherwise. I just can't fold a set here, even with V description. We end up putting in about 100 bbs with a set, which we are supposed to do on non-dangerous boards such as this.
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01-13-2015 , 06:37 PM
I think at the table, I probably play this the same way, get frustrated, and then look back and say how can we have played this hand better?

One thing to think about, and I need to do a better job as well, is to be aware of how strong your opponent is betting in limped pots. Being a limped pot, this guy can have anything from the flopped straight, higher set, two pair, an overpair, or complete air.

Would a straight or set play it this way? Absolutely.

Would two pair? Yes, but many villains wouldn't be betting so hard, worrying that you might have a set or flopped the straight.

Would an overpair bet this hard? What overpair, in a limped pot, would be this strong? Not many. 77-1010 aren't. Most people raise with QQ+. And if he happened to limp JJ, he just turned you.

So given the fact that you raised OTF, and yet villain is still barreling against you, out of position, for solid sized bets, we can put him on pretty close to the exact hand he has.

And unless we have some reason to think that this guy is all of a sudden in maniac "I must bluff you with my air" mode, he's likely got a very strong hand by the river, and given the action, he flopped it (e.g., by the river, the turn and river likely didn't help his hand). The only strong hand that he flopped that you can beat is 64 or 42, and since you have 22, 42 is unlikely. So yeah, by the river, you should be pretty sure, based on hand reading, that he has you beat (again, I too am looking at this in retrospect, but we're all here to think about this spot and learn from it!).

Another thing to take away from this hand is that this villain tends to not slowplay his monsters. He value bets the crap out of them. File that away and try to take advantage of him in pots where he shows weakness. Hopefully you can use this information against him in the future.
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01-13-2015 , 06:39 PM
One thing I noticed was absent: what was villain's stack size? Did he cover you?
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01-13-2015 , 06:46 PM
Don't go broke in a limped pot.

When a passive players fires three bullets at us, it's time to get out of there. I think I would have a tough time folding the river, however. But, if you folded it wp.
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01-13-2015 , 08:00 PM
Why couldnt I put v on 3 5 oh yea because its 2/5..
Even fish know not to go broke in a limped pot..
We kno what to do but in real time all your basik poker
Knowledge like 4 me"don't bluff fish" goes out the window

I <3 fish
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01-13-2015 , 10:22 PM
Quote:
Looking for general advice on small PP's as well as how to play this hand.
Unless we're playing against total maniacs, they become RIO hands once we get deep enough, especially in limped pots. Most players simply don't put in 200bb with hands like TPTK without some weird dynamics. I fold small pps a lot pre when playing deep, and I'm way more willing to fold sets, since it's possible to assign narrow ranges to opponents more often.

I'm oversimplifying somewhat, since we can of course get profitable spots with sets against two pair, the point is just that sets can be serious trouble hands deep if we're not used to playing deep.

Last edited by Jay S; 01-13-2015 at 10:42 PM.
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01-14-2015 , 04:46 AM
this is probably one of the few spots i fold a set due to a couple of things 1) we have bottom set 2) a limped pot 3) we shown strength but still faced big bets from the villain.

i will call turn but fold river.
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