Playing at a casino in a $1/3nl game. Each time there is a dealer switch, they do a bomb pot in this game. 8 handed. I am UTG +1. For Bomb pot all 8 players put out $10. I am dealt KcQs. Flop comes out K83 rainbow. Small blind checks, Villain in Big blind bets $20. I raise to $65????? (Thoughts on that raise would be appreciated too). Everyone folds back to villain who calls. Turn comes a K completing rainbow. Opponent checks, I bet $65(super small bet because board is so dry). Opponent shoves for an additional $340, I have him covered. Before results would like to hear what others would do?

Opponent is an older man I have not played with before. He has been playing a large amount of hands and is playing loose passive. Just checking and calling a lot. He has shown 3 different hands after turns and rivers where he had shoved and his opponents folded. All 3 shoves were an over shove for 2 to 4 times the size of pot. 2 of the times he had the absolute nuts, and the other time he shoved with a river straight he made though river also brought 3 to a flush so was definitely not the nuts.

Thoughts?????

What is your stack size starting the hand? Do players have an option to raise preflop after everyone antes the $10?

My starting stack is around $900. On bomb pot, everyone throws in $10, and no action preflop. Other opponents stack vary all between $200 and like $1,200.

Well he can have AK/K8/K3/KK/88/33. I fold here.

AP I flat the flop because we are WA/WB.

Snap call. I kinda like the flop raise.

We're $480 eff? I'd bet a bit over half pot to set up a shove OTR.

EDIT:

Nevermind, I rushed through the description and though V was shoving turns and rivers a lot. If he's passive & has had nuts/near nuts all the other times he's done this, we gotta fold. After raising flop & him calling, we gotta go into checkdown mode OTT. Maybe put in a thin bet OTR if turn is checked through

I always sit out bomb pots cuz they always end up in the situation I always try to avoid: multiway hugely bloated pots where you face commitment decisions for your stack against sometimes loose / tricky / gamblooey players immediately.

I don't think I'd raise this dry flop against anyone, let alone this guy donking into the world. It's closer to a fold than a raise, imo, although I call in position for this cheap price and see what develops.

I hate life when he calls my raise as I really don't want to be playing for stacks against this guy, so I check back the turn.

As played, I nit fold. Guy knows we have a K (at the very least) and yet he's shoving anyways. We're drawing to 3 outs.

GcluelessNLnoobG

You always have to call the flop. I would never just fold on flop. Assuming its a full ring live game there is $90 in the pot and villain leads for $20. I probably elect to flat the bet on such a dry board and think about how to extract value from lesser hands on turn and river. Problem with this "bomb pot" is anyone who would have raised preflop can't. Since you decided to raise the flop doesn't necessarily mean that villain "knows you have a K". When the turn peels K and villain open shoves.. I myself am leaning towards a call. In the specific player pool in my experience players tend to check that hand to someone who has already shown aggression. They do this because they are in fear of loosing the action. Especially open shoving 340. Unless you have a history with this player and he is trying to level you by open shoving. that almost never screams a full house. Also there are many Ks the player could have had that he was forced to play. What did you do and what did villain have?

V did not open shove turn, he check / raise shoved (even stronger) after being raised on the flop and you still think he's not putting us on a K?

Nit picking but unless it's K8 we have slightly more than 3 outs as we can chop or scoop some rivers, not that it influences the decision much:
K8 - 3 scoops worst case
K3 - 3 scoops + 3 chops
88 - 7 scoops
33 - 7 scoops
AK - 3 scoops + 6 chops

I missed that villain check shoved turn. It's a tough spot you bet roughly 25% of the pot on the turn and villain shoves for more than pot size. Do you seriously think villain is always full? I find it hard to believe.

He shoved a straight into a possible flush so I agree it's not 100% boat+. But of all his possible hands how many of them are behind KQ? I can only find KJ, maybe KT and that may be optimistic given his passive description. All of his sets turned boats and AK put together are more likely than a smaller K that is losing to even more combos than our KQ IMO...

I just don't think passive players are jamming K9- into someone who is clearly representing a K here.

Thanks for the feedback everyone, I ended up folding. Unfortunately he showed K7, but I dont regret too much. Pretty sure he is doing same thing with all full houses and AK as well.

I'm calling because of the straight shove with flush on board hand. Shovey old dudes can have any Kx here. Plus he doesn't have to have a big hand betting $20 into $80 on the flop. It's a hard call but I do not think he has two pair or a set on the flop.

I like the flop raise, I'd go a bit bigger to like $100 though.

As usual I disagree with every sentence. If this guy can be value shoving with worse then this fold is a disaster.

+1

I think setting ourselves up for value town starts from the flop. If we were to rsise bigger on earlier streets, our decisions become easier and simpler.

In this scenario, trip K is the new straight on a completed flush board and whats more? There's no flush or straight on the board! and the only K trip that beats hero is AK, while there are many other K trips which we beat. Just like what mdelore said,


if V didn't get aggressive in such a way that smells like a super strong hand OTF, they very likely won't have it on subsequent streets, especially on a dry static board.

agreed

This is shocking to me.

Is this promoted by the players at the table or the casino? I've heard of casinos splashing pots with $100 but not bomb pots with players money. I assume if you opt to sit out you just fold your hand for free? Would suck to wake up with AA after opting out.

UTG blind raises to X and everyone behind blind calls.

But if you opt out does that mean you have to either blind call or fold or can you ruin the party and rip in a huge raise?

It's just like people wanting to shoot $100 or whatever. Everyone is dealt a hand, those who want to shoot / bomb state it up front and do so, everyone else voluntarily folds their hand (but they are dealt in for BBJ purposes, sometimes the non-playing blinds are even given their money back by the winner). I've never seen anyone break these voluntary rules in my reg-infested room, and if anyone did I'm sure they'd be run out of the room in a variety of different manners.

Gitain'trocketscienceG

For me it really comes down to the opponent's experience level.

If he's a live pokr reg, it's highly unlikely he's doing this with a worse hand to this action. If he's new to the game, fair enough, maybe he plays KJ like this some of the time. At my family reunion lol pokr tournament, this is a snap call; at my poker room, it's a pretty easy fold.

I'm perhaps biased because I think the vast majority of opponents we play against are regs. I'll let OP decide what he thinks the opponents experience level is.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Actually AA is not a fantastic hand in a bomb pot. It is quite difficult to know where you are at. And more often than not, against 8 people seeing flop, AA is not in the lead.

Promoted by the players. Just gets more money on the table from crazy that hands where they are often rebuys after the pot.

Although bomb pots are probably mostly just instigated by action gamblooers, it is actually a fantastic method for good deepstack players to get the table deepstacked.

GcluelessbombpotnoobG

100% of the time this is a call all day and night. I'm snap calling this shove and raking in the monies. I don't know exactly how many bomb pots I have played in, but it's got to be close to 100. People play so poorly and so face up in bomb pots.

This guy never has AK here, never. He's not leading $20 with a King that strong. He's gonna bet min half pot, probably closer to 50-60.

He's also never flatting you with 2 pair in this spot, he's raising your raise every single time. The only hands he might flat with are sets, especially since you guys are heads up and the board is relatively dry. When you hit trips and he check shoves your "pathetic looking" bet (he could be seeing this as a bet as a way to get to showdown for cheap, I'm not saying the bet itself is bad because it's not. I quite like the bet.)

There are 6 hands potentially that beat yours in sets turned into boats, 32 hands that you are crushing in all worse Kings, and 3 hands you are chopping with in the other available KQ's. No way that you should fold. If he's got one of the 6 sets turned boats, God Bless Em