Post a hand history involving a questionable play you've made. Then describe your reasoning for the play, ie. 'Why was your play +EV?' Player types, specific reads, ranges, table dymanics, etc are all useful for defending your claim.

**Note: This thread SHOULD contain some very bizarre plays. We're talking about plays that you may even be embarrassed about. In fact, I imagine it would be useful to post a borderline play, with an explanation as to why the play may have been -EV.

I'm mostly interested in discussing the following scenarios:

Bluffs:
Bluffs with equity (draws), as well as bluffs without equity (soul reads)

Thin Value Bets:
Bets that are designed to be called by a fairly weak range

Hero Calls:
Calls made with marginal hands (villain seems to have a polarized range that is weighted towards air/ auto-muck hands)

I look forward to reading your responses. Hopefully this can be a constructive thread. Let's try to be welcoming to plays that may seem a bit unorthodox.

I think most bluffing, thin value betting, and hero calling should will take place in fairly standard/obvious spots to do so since anything even somewhat fancy is probably -ev against typical LLSNL players. That said, here's a simple one to start things off...

1/2nl, 7 handed, game has been running for about an hour.

Folded to hero in co w/76
$280 effective
Hero opens for $8
btn folds
sb folds
bb calls

hero: Mid 20s, white, red hoodie, quiet. Only player playing tag at the table. I think villain has certainly noticed I'm playing tight, but probably only perceives me as mildly aggressive since I haven't shown down anything played especially aggro yet

bb: Only other young player at the table, early/mid 20s, white, listening to ipod. His dad is playing on another table and came over and said he lost a race with a short stack so I guess they talk poker a little. He's been playing loose and semi-aggressive. Saw him call a raise with 64s otb. Don't remember the details of the hand as it was a while ago

When bb calls mid 30's guy on my right says "Uh oh, the 2 young guns"

FLOP ($16) T 6 4
bb checks
hero checks

TURN ($16) T 6 4 5
bb bets $15

He looked at the turn and only thought for a couple of seconds before reaching for chips and betting then just looked at the board while I looked at him for a second. The bet was unusually large, possibly the largest bet relative to the pot on the flop in the hour the table has been running. I instantly felt like he was trying to push me off my hand thinking I'm weaktight and missed the flop. I'm also probably the only player at the table who seems bluffable so maybe he's trying to seize the opportunity

hero calls $15 after thinking for a few seconds

RIVER ($43) T 6 4 5 Q
bb bets $35

I still feel like he's just assuming I'm weaktight. I don't think he's putting me on a hand, just betting and hoping

The unusually large bets represent strong hands. Hands that make sense are QT, 64s, 65s, 45s, 87s, TT, 66, 44, 55, but I think he bets smaller to try to get value since my hand looks weak from checking back the flop. Tx doesn't make sense b/c he would have bet smaller otr or checked. I decide the only hands that beat me and will likely size bets like this are QT and Qx that bluffed turn and hit river.

Hero calls $35
bb tables K 7
hero tables 7 6
Dealer says "Straight. Uhhh 4, 5, 6...no, pair of 7s"
hero wins pot ($112) with a pair of 7s

I thought it was a very easy call and I knew I was going to call as soon as he bet, but I took a second to think about it and narrow his range anyway. I think this hand is a good example of a fairly standard bluff-catching hand for those who have trouble bluff-catching. It's also a good example of how checking back is more profitable than cbetting when our cbet only gets called by better.

NH, great analysis as usual but this is a gem.

xposting this from my blog cause I was way too embarrassed to post in LLSNL


I am stuck 750-900ish at this point and it may have influenced my decision-making in this hand. Reviewing it I think preflop might be bad, but flop turn and river as played are good. That's what I think at least.

Some 6'10 basketball player kid wearing purple sunglasses who is playing very loose and bad opens to 15. The younger, nerdy looking reg on my immidiate right calls and I look down at 55 in the cutoff. We are all right next to each other.

1. Call and setmine. Players behind me aren't squeezing light/they suck. I have good position.
2. 3bet and play a pot with iniative and position against villian's "pot builder" raise and the reg's speculative call to play against fishy.

I elect to 3bet (my stack is like 700 also) to 50.

Fish folds, reg calls. Perfect.

(120)K 10 4 Beautiful.
I bet 70 he calls.

Hmm. This is not supposed to happen. Maybe he is drawing with the nut ace. I have 3bet a couple times at this table and not shown down any of them. This reg guy probably views me as an aggro kid. My thinking is that with the fish opening pre he would 3bet 99+ aq+ for value so he should never have those here. In this spot vs me I am giving him a range of like QJs any nut diamonds or 44.

Turn(260) K 10 4 8
Super blank. Nice. I bet 140. He thinks and calls. Now I am really freaking baffled here as to what he is calling me down with. Maybe a nit-money qjdd or something? It's very confusing.

River 540) K 10 4 8 2
He leads for 300.


What the hell? Immediately I start wondering
1.What hands can he be bluffing here?
2.What hands does he play this way for value?
3.What does he think I have?


1. QJdd, any missed diamonds. I can't see him turning a hand like 99 into a mega-bluff here.
2. 888? Maybe? I have no clue.
3. I 3bet preflop and it might be wider then most in this spot but i still double barreled a king high board...

I made the hero call and he showed me...




Now. I'm not one to really explain the thought process of live players, the only explanation I can see is if he saw grabbing 3bet chips after I saw mr fish raise and then he decided to go all FPS on me...

The dude played well this session which is why it baffled me to see this at showdown.

Oh well -_-

Except it was a pair of 6s. Dealer did think it was a straight at first but getting the pair wrong was my mistake

I lolled bigtime, I was completely expecting the 55 to be good

I'm afraid this thread is either going to turn into BBV or a string of hands that would be better off in their own thread. I'd like to see more hands where hero makes a thin play that works out and shares his logic behind it. We don't see enough of those kinds of hands in the forum since people seldom question their play when they win

I used to play with this old rich Greek guy at GVC. The biggest game they have at this casino is a 2/5 with $300 max buy in. I normally played 1/2 but I always went to go play the 2/5 whenever this guy was at the table. I have played with him many times and I have a perfect read on him. He gives off soooo many tells during every single hand he plays. He plays extremely abc, weak-tight. Never c-betting when he misses, only 3betting AA, KK and QQ. Raising ridiculous amounts preflop with hands like TT and JJ because he's scared to play postflop. I am his nemesis, he absolutely hates me because I have beaten him 100% of the times we played. Anyway on to the hand...

Villain: ($600)
Hero: ($600)

I raise preflop with AQ and villain and another guy call.

($60) Flop is something like J42 villains check and I c-bet $40 and villain insta-calls.

It is soooo obvious he has a flush or straight draw.

($140) Turn is a brick, like another J villain checks and I bet $100 for value and villain insta-calls.

($240) River is a brick like the 3 and Villain spazzes and shoves ~$450...

I have seen him make this play before when he misses his draw.

I pretty much snap call and when I showed A high he absolutely lost it, I think I put him on life tilt after that hand.

Villain is a decent player, the type of guy who has probably read a basic book on live poker and plays to the best of his knowledge at the table. Has a good concept of pot size, (and position?) He is here with a friend seems to be more gamble in him. defends his straddles almost every time (and BB?).

2/5

folded to hero in BB with A8o, raises to $25, bb calls

flop: 48Jcc
hero bets $30, call

turn Qh
hero checks quickly, villain checks quickly

ricker6s
hero checks, villain bets $85 into
hero calls

everything bricks on the river, I expect villain to be calling me light PF, I suspect he has a fairly wide range to call my c-bet because he would have seen me make the same raise c-bet move all night. So if he got there with KQ or AQ I'll pay him off, but I assume the majority of his range is dominated by missed draws and A high hands. I call he says good calls turns over Kxcc and I show third pair for the win

Great start so far guys.

Rob, really nice post. I am pleased to see someone had the courage/confidence to actually post a losing play.

I like your 3bet PF, for obvious reasons (iso the fish, good immediate equity with a pair, etc).

I'm not sure I like the barrel on the turn. I feel like most regs (at 2/5) aren't peeling the flop in a 3bet pot with anything other than a decent made hand or a big draw.

I suppose we can fold out like 99-QQ... But I think the call on the flop is usually some kind of nut draw or Kx, (or AA lol), all of which want to continue to the river.

Reposted from BBV. Also posted this in the chat thread like a year ago or something. Probably still my favorite hand.

$2/5, 7-handed and villain is very, very drunk. He has $790, I cover.

4 folds, button (villain) raises to $20.

I call from the SB with 66. BB folds.

Flop Q-5-4 rainbow (pot $45)

Button bets $20 out of turn. I check. Button tries to check now (!) but the $20 bet is binding.

I put him on ace-high but I didn't want him to hit his overs or a wheel so I raised to $75.

He looks visibly pissed at this point but then announces a re-raise to $150. His line doesn't make sense so I call the extra $75. I could have 4-bet, but we were kinda deepish so I didn't want to overcommit just yet.

Turn J-Q-5-4 rainbow (pot $345)

I check and he bets another $150. This bet doesn't make sense because if he has like AJ I think he would check behind. I think he's super-polarized which means I'm probably good. I call $150.

River K-J-Q-5-4 (pot $645)

I check and he moves all-in for $470. The K wasn't a great card for me, as he could have gotten there with AT, but again, I think he's checking behind 1-pair here so shoving actually makes his range more polarized (and thus weaker).

Trusting my read I push in $470 to call.

He says "good call" and I flip over my sixes. Villain says in disbelief "SIXES?" and mucks!

Hero wins $1585 pot.

Table was pretty mesmerized by my call.

This is spew/embarassing, ~5k deep 10/20:

I have 44 in CO.

PRE (30):
MP limps, I raise 80, BTN call, limper call

FLOP (270): AQ3
MP chk, I chk, BTN bet 140, MP call, I raise 440, BTN fold, MP call

Given how loose I play and BTN's style I'm confident that a lot of the time he is 3betting AQ against me (and obv QQ/AA). He's also the type to stab at pots when checked to (and he's def betting like random Qx ("since everyone checked"). I think C/R vs. him is fine since he is bet/folding a massive part of his range (Qx for sure, even weak aces but then again he won't have those too often). MP can have any pair, any broadway gutter, and any FD (he loves to peel light).... He will also fold a lot of mid strength made hands to C/R. By chk/raising I thought I could push out a stronger made hand and have villains continue on primarily with draws.

Thats exactly what happened. I ended up checking turn on 7o (bad in retrospect since i should charge draws) but snapped off a river bluff on an off suit Qo. Villain shows KTo

warning: small pot brag -

I would like to add a story I heard about some famous older generation poker pro, maybe it was Johhny Moss or Bobby Baldwin or someone like that I'm not sure. The story is told by Mike Sexton.

Hero is playing during the bubble time in a big NLH tournament, everyone is playing extremely scared/passive, folding every hand just trying to make the money...

Hero is raising every single hand he plays and picking up the blinds and antes every single hand. No one is playing back at him, everyone just wants to make the money.

Hero is in big blind with AA, it folds around to the small blind who is the short-stack of the tournament and only has 2bb's left and shoves all-in... Hero folds...

"Folding the AA preflop and letting the short-stack stay alive so he doesn't bust as bubble boy, I could make more money continuing to pick up the blinds and antes"

Anyone of us would have snap-called here, we have the nuts and we will bust the short-stack be guaranteed to be in the money. But Hero was thinking outside of the box and saw the big picture... I thought it was pretty amazing

I made a ridiculous hero-call the other day...

$1-3NL, I'm in BB with 88s. There's 6 callers of $3, so I make it $18, try to thin the field.

4 people hang on...
FLOP - 10s, 4s, 10c
(Villain has Q,10 off)

I lead out $35, guy in last position calls pretty quick. I think he's on a Spade draw.
TURN - 3h

I bet like $70, he gives me this look like "Hmmmm, that's a lot, not sure if it's worth it... tanks, and reluctantly puts it in

RIVER - 4h

I bet $100, he thinks for a while and puts me all in for like $205 more.

I call, thinking he's missed his flush and now this is last resort, OR, he had maybe 66 77 and doesn't put me on a 10?

But I call and lose, can't really beat anything...

This is the hand im most proud of.

Villain is a LAG player, raises always whenever hes on the button, raises in the blinds when limped to. We have some history where i tried 2 bluff him on a 3 flush flop, but he 3-bet shove over the top of me and i folded.

Effective stacks ~450

Villain raises to 10, I call with QJ BB calls too.

Flop (30)

249

checks around.

Turn (30)

249 - J

BB bets 10, villain calls 10, Hero raises to 35, BB folds, Villain RR to 115 even, hero calls.

I tank and think about what hes trying to represent... Nothing really... Why would a set 3-bet me here OTT. I'm only really scared of AJ, or KJ, but my gut says im still good.

River (260)

249 - J -6

Villain ships allin for the rest of my stack ~350 into 260...

I tanked and tanked and finally villain says, your KJ is no good...
He seems like a competitive player, so I would imagine he would want me to call... So this seems odd too. He also in big hands would stare straight and give off no tells. He seemed really relaxed and was looking at the TV while i was staring at him.
I finally tank called after about 5 minutes and he says "Nice call" and flips a 6 and i table my hand an scoop the pot!

Last session at 1-3, first hand I play I raise AK from middle position, caller in position, 2 limp-callers oop, flop comes 922, checked to me I cbet 3/4 pot. Villain on my left minraises. He's a middle-aged guy with almost exactly a $200 stack that based on chip denomination I can tell probably just arrived at the table. He's already made a comment about how his wife is off playing slots. I decide he doesn't want to go broke with whatever 66-88 hand he's holding and shove. He tanks and agonizingly folds, saying "I want to call, but the chances of you hitting your overcard are too high for me, I can wait for a better spot." I love personality snap judgment soulreads

About six months ago, it's 1am and a young guy is racking up after winning a decent pot and being up for the night. He raises from LP and I 3bet small with TJs from the button. He hesitates and calls. Flop is a dry 8 high. He leads out for $50. He looks like he really wants that to end the pot here and there so I shove my stack over the top (I have his $400 or so covered). He looks like he's about to puke for what feels like an hour before he folds his QQ face up. Abusing people that are overly concerned about session results is fun

About a year ago, I open raise 22 from the button, BB, a young jockish know-it-all home game hero, pauses for a moment like he's going to 3bet then calls, which with this guy means about 100% AK (he really didn't 3bet preflop without the nuts). Flop comes QJ3 two diamonds. He leads out, I call. Turn offsuit 5. He checks, I bet, he calls. River another 5, he shoves, I beat him into the pot, saying "ace-king of diamonds, right?" He flips over AK of diamonds and berates me as a donkey for about another hour when he sees what I called him with.

And from my LVL thread, though it's not LLSNL I'm very proud of the hand at 5-10 where I called a drunk maniac with 89o, flop comes 789. He checks I bet about 120% pot, he calls. Turn K, he checks I bet about 120% pot, he calls. River pairs the king and he leads out for about pot, like $500. I agonize and call. He shows 96o and we chop.

Why did you bet the river? If you're going to make a big play here, you're better of checking and inducing some sort of weird bluff. It will cost you far less in the long run. Villain always has you beat with that line when he raises the river.

Thanks for sharing a losing play, though. I'm starting to think that the losing plays are more useful for learning.

** I think it would be useful if we refrained from revealing results immediately. The posts should primarily be hand histories of strange/advanced plays. **

I don't want this to turn into BBV.

We should be analyzing plays based on the information available during the hand-- not the results afterwards.

More please!