$1/$2

Been at the table less than 30 minutes. We are 7 handed. EP opens for $12. I call with 56cc on the BTN. BB contemplates and asks how much more to call. He then calls.

Flop come 7-8-9 rainbow, no clubs. BB ($600) leads out $25. EP folds. I have $280, and reraise to $55. BB calls.

Turn is a 2c. BB checks. Pot is now around $140. Should I bet for value assuming he doesn't have TJ or T6 (unlikely)? Or should I bet big to take it down now. How much should I bet for value? How much do I bet if I just want to take it down? The problem with shipping it is I am probably only getting called when I'm beat.

I'd raise more otf to set up better sizing later. When you flop this you should just figure how to get it all in by the river.

Raise to 75 otf. Pot will be $186, you'll have $205. And then ott you have a decent amount to ship, it's a little big, but it beats betting $100 here and $100 otr.

AP, bet for value, a draw to the better straight is there, but it's not one of the obvious "he has a draw how do I give him the wrong price." If he has JT it's a cooler, he doesn't have T6. I'd bet about $100. It leaves about $125 to shove into a river pot of $340, I guess the good news is he might talk himself into a call with 1 or 2 pair because it's such a low bet.

I would make it 70 on flop and 140 on turn for value.. He is likely drawing b/c he is not raising u here to protect...So you are going to get most of your value on the turn.... On the rvr u have position to see what he does but its going in on any rvr, assuming u wanted to play for stacks here (which i would)

Lol, you'd have put in 240 of your 300. Ever going to fold?, or check behind? What does pos. matter?

correct i am nvr folding here....

Position is still relevant here however...

About 36 in the pot and villain bets 25, a good sized bet, I'd make it 3x to 75 at least. By min raising it you're basically just juicing the pot if he does have a draw that could beat you. Bigger reraise sets up easier turn shove as well.

On the turn I'd make it 100-120 and get it in on a safe river.

It seems like so far the advice in this thread is way too specific and ignoring the huge flaw in logic shown in the last paragraph:

OP, this is going to help you out more than any advice about the specific hand, because if you understand this, then the hand will play itself.

The flaw in logic is this: if the Villain does in fact have JT (forget T6, it's very unlikely), then he has the nuts--and he's never, ever folding no matter what you bet. So any bet that you make with the intention of "taking it down" will never work if he has JT.

However, what if he doesn't have JT or T6? Then you have the best hand--and if you have the best hand, you don't want to take the pot down now. You want to make a bet that Villain will call and be wrong to call, and the bigger you can make that bet, the better off you are.

This is true both on the flop and turn. On the flop you need to decide right then and there: is your hand good enough (meaning enough worse hands will call you) that you can play it like the nuts? You appear to have decided that it is. Well, that being the case, you should figure out what kinds of hands will call you, and size your bet so that those hands are wrong to call you and so that your bet is as big as it can be while still getting your opponent to make a wrong call.

The other people who have responded have addressed the specifics about sizing (you made your flop raise too small--I would have sized it to set up an easy turn shove), but the general logic is something that you need to internalize if you want to get better in spots like this.

I put the villain on 2 pair. Rather than risk him filling up I considered the large bet.

The underlying theme here is how to proceed with a nut low straight.

If you want to "take it down" then calling pre flop is an absolutely huge problem.

This. We called preflop and flopped basically gin for our hand, and now we get MUBsy

For me, this is an easy stackoff because my image gets called by every 2 pair and set possible. If you aren't getting worse to stack off, this needs to be a fold pre.

Flop raise to $70-85, all of it basically on the turn. If I make it on the smaller side to $70 on the flop, it's to bet/call it off on the turn and if i make it $85, its perfect for a shove.

This is wrong thinking. If you put Villain on 2 pair or even a set, you don't want to make him fold his hand--you want him to call a bet that he is getting the wrong odds to call. Now, if you are betting big because you believe that Villain will call mistakenly thinking that he has the best hand, that is different.

I mean really, if you shove the turn, and Villain calls and flips over a set, you're not happy? You would have preferred that he fold so that you don't get outdrawn? If that's your thought process, it's just wrong. When you have the best hand, you want action.

EDIT: The underlying theme here is that you have a very poor concept of why to bet. As I said earlier, if you fix that then this hand plays itself.

Bet $100-$120 on turn and if J or 6 doesn't hit river bet the rest of your $ if he checks if he bets into you call. His range is a pair and a draw or two pair here or possibly a naked 10. If you get the feeling he REALLY likes his hand on the turn I suppose you could Jam.

The last thing you need to do in this hand is worry about J10 STOP IT!!!!!!! if he has j10 NH on to the next buy-in or day of poker, that's it. You need to maximize value in spots like this.

So BB checks the turn. I bet $60. He calls.

River is a 6. He checks and I check behind.

Villain turns over 10 9.

I guess I was indeed too worried about 2 pair and losing to a fill up. After the hand I wondered if I should have bet bigger on the turn. However, I doubt he folds to any bet with TP decent kicker with straight draw.

^ Thank him for hitting his miracle and not even betting it. Fish hitting their gin card and checking (not even really with the intent to c/r the river, because against other people who do bet otr, I see them c/c) is one of the top 5 reasons I make $.

But this is the problem with mid sc's. We can never know the flush is good, 2 pair will always be in danger of getting counterfeited or drawing dead against a set, trips probably gets no action, so we basically need the high end of the straight. And to get that, low cards will need to hit the board, will we be able to get a pot going with cards that low?, and thus make playing these hands profitable? All things to consider when playing low-mid sc's.

I'd like to hear opinions on optimal play had we been in the Villains shoes.

OP, don't worry about how villain played it cause you still have enormous issues with your thought process

Bolded sounds like you think him not folding is reason to not bet bigger (you would have lost a bigger pot). However him not folding is exactly why you should have bet bigger (because you get money in as a big, big favourite) That is how you make money, results don't matter.

I agree. Been playing with scared money since I am currently in a huge down swing.

I asked opinions on how to play in the villains shoes not to second guess my or his play, but instead to see how we should approach the hand as we have all been in this exact same position before.

I'd raise enough on the flop to make the pot big enough to shove the turn. Make it $80 on the flop, then shove the turn. As played, you made it too cheap for him to fold.



fold preflop.

Do not play with scared money.

This is kinda hard to answer since V is not very good. He obviously thought you had JT and called anyway OR he thought you had an overpair, and was willing to call 2 streets to hit a 6, J, or maybe a 9. In order to get to the river, he has to have so many leaks in his game that it is unreal, and then he checks the river when he hits gin. I couldn't even begin to describe the thought process there, except to say that I see this all the time. I'd want to play this guy a lot. We would spend our days in Valuetown. Sure, sometimes you would valueown yourself against him, but after about 2 days you could just look at it as you giving him back enough of his money to keep him coming back.