V no read, older person who just sat down, UTG +1

H Tag, I have 320 eff in CO

UTG and V limp, I raise to $20 with AhTh
SB, BB, UTG, V all call

Pot: $100-7, H has 300 eff
Flop: Ad, Td, 7h
I flopped top 2, All check to hero who bets 80 and only V calls.

Pot: $253 (93+160) H has 220 Eff
Turn: Ad. Td, 7h, 5d
V quickly checks, my read was V was in check/call mode with a weak Ax or weaker 2 pairs.
Hero??? Should I bet 2 pair with a possible turned flush???

The Ad on the flop eliminates a lot of his flush combos. After calling a limp pre, he has weak AX, 68s, 57s, 89s, even T7s. With 220 behind, it will be hard to fold if you bet small, and V jams. You don’t want to give a single spade or straight draws a free card. So I guess you have to Jam here. I’m curious what others will say.

We could bet 80 and fold to a jam; the trouble with this is you could be jameed on by worse and/or river is an action killer and/or 4th diamond, so1 I think with less than a PSB I'm just shoving it in.

Flushes represent some of his range, but at least some of the time, he's leading turn with those, particularly non-nut ones, and there's plenty of value at 1/3 from weaker aces and **** like QdJx, or KdTh

I check here and see what he does on the river. Do we think a bad ace calls? I think we are more likely to get value from them leading a weak ace on the river.

The obvious draw just got there. All we are giving free cards too would be 89.

My question would be which worse hands call here? I think his range is capped due to the overlimp pre. He doesn’t have AJ+. I think he’s skewed toward small pairs and sc’s and suited aces. He called a psb on the flop….do we really think it was with an offsuit 89?

Older person. Population read for me is unlikely to jam without a flush. I like $100 folding to a jam. Old men also unlikely to call off $220 in one shot with one pair unless specifically AK or maybe AQ. The only hand I can see him jamming you beat is AxKd.

I think checking turn and then jamming river when checked to or calling his jam on river are reasonable. Maybe not if a 4th diamond come out. If he bets less than all in on the river it would be close between just calling and rejamming.

Jam the turn it's 220 into 253, anything less is jus being alil mubsy at this stack depth (he already called 80 into 100 so he's in love with his hand almost). If he does have a flush (which is possible but not likely as played) we still have outs to out draw and counter it. He's probably calling with AKxx. Another diamond will def kill any further action anyway.

yup it would be horrible to b/f to a non-nit/OMC who's just jamming with AK or A7s.

He might fold turn with weak AX if we jam. More likely for him to check call or bet call river. If we check turn. Yeah he calls 2 pair but that is a smaller portion of his range in the turn.

I'm either/or preflop and lately have more been leaning to overlimping this after 2 limps (especially if a raise isn't thinning the field).

I would PSB the flop to shove the turn.

Now that the main draw got there I think I'm ok with perhaps changing my commitment plan and checking back to likely hero call a non-horrendous river. But also don't think following thru with commitment is bad either.

GcluelessNLnoobG

But is he still calling a weak ace for 100 dollars? And if he raises it, are we really folding? I would think if he's calling anything here he's probably calling 220 too btjmoc.

If he put him on an ace calling $80 into $180, I imagine he wil call $100 into $360. AJ, AQ, AK

That's my point if he's calling 100 then he's likely calling 220 too.

Oh gotcha. Im not sure I agree because of the population read old guys not liking to stack off with one pair at the lowest stakes

id be more likely to bet the turn if we bet the flop smaller but 80 is massive into 3. he also limp called early so i think its optimistic to hope for like AQ/AJ with a d. pretty happy checking and calling non horrendous rivers (i think broadway rivers particularly a J is the worst river, i dont think another diamond is necessarily terrible) vs most sizes

b/f the turn is the worst option i think especially vs an unknown

Why do we think he overlimped a big ace though? Do we have a read he’s an ubernit? Almost every Omc in my room is raising AJ+ here preflop….certainly AQ+. The ones that limp these I know.

Older person = limp/call AK- is my typical read until proven otherwise (which is why I'm not a huge fan of the preflop raise although I'll be massively outvoted).

GcluelessNLnoobG

In probably the last 5 rooms Ive played players over 65 years old pretty much never raise AJ. Rarely raise AQ maybe 10% to 20%. And raise AK about 33% of the time.

So the ones that limp you know, but what about the ones you don't know?

Plenty of weak players routinely limp in with AK in 1/3NL.

In these types of spots, this is my thinking:

1. No point in putting more money into the pot if we're already beat.

2. If we're not already beat, after calling a large flop bet, our opponent has already shown a propensity to make loose calls of big bets with weaker 1P/2P hands, or chase his draws, so if he's on one, he's probably not folding now, so no point in jamming, and we should only bet if we're willing to call an x/r jam, which we don't want to do, so no point in betting.

3. If we're ahead, we're probably well ahead and V is either drawing dead or drawing very thin. V's not going to bluff or call a bet if a 4th flush card hits the river and he doesn't have it, so we can just check back or fold to a bet on a 4th flush card. If the river is a brick, V might bet, but he might also just check, and we can bet for value. If he bets river on a brick after we check back on turn, that'll suck, but we can call a smallish bet and easily fold to a big bet. These guys rarely go check-call-check-call-donk-lead for any size as a bluff, but a small size is often a block bet with a non-nut hand.

4. There's always a chance that the river will improve us to a boat, or otherwise pair the board, and stop our opponents from betting their flushes or turning worse hands into a bluff after we checked back, allowing us to bet our boats for value, or check-back and win some of the time with our 2P.

5. We tend to lose more over-playing hands that were strong on the flop but downgraded on the turn than we lose when we slow down and play pot control, even at the risk of letting our opponents catch up. Again, in a scenario like this, if we're not already behind, it'll be easy to fold river on a 4th flush card, and we shouldn't beat ourselves up for "letting him get there" when he probably wasn't going to fold to a turn bet anyway, after calling a big bet on the flop. Sometimes they don't fold no matter how much we bet, and some of those times, they'll get there, so it's okay to slow down and protect our stack in the more marginal situations.

V quickly checks, my read was V was in check/call mode with a weak Ax or weaker 2 pairs.
Hero??? Should I bet 2 pair with a possible turned flush???

Results: With an SPR<1 and what turned out to be a bad read I jammed for my remaining $220. I felt I was preventing any draw from having the correct odds to call and value betting all 2nd best hands as stated. V quickly called and tabled 7d 6d for a flopped flush draw and a turned st8. V turned out to be an OMC reg and sat on his stack for another hour then cashed out (frustrating).

Thanks for all the excellent replies.