Eff stacks: $280 $1/$2 NL.

Villain 1 is an aggressive donk who likes to gamble it up.
Villain 2 is an older woman. Big stack. Typical tight female player.
Villain 3 is a guy about my age who can't fold. Plays ATC, every hand. I seriously would put his preflop calling range as at least 90 percent of hands. Very good postflop, though, and loves to gamble it up.

V3 is BB; V2 is SB; V1 is button; hero is UTG.

Hero limps in with 5 5

V1 raises to $11 for about the 4th straight hand. V2 calls, V3 calls. I gladly oblige.

Flop comes Q 5 4

V3 checks. I decide to bet weak and bet $15. V1 raises to $40. V2 and V3 call the $40. I decide its time to punish the 3 people in the hand and I ship it. About $250 more.

V1 and V2 fold. V3 goes in the tank. Talks about how he thinks he has to call with his big draw - a flush draw and a gut shot (he had 6 8).

Would it have been smarter to smooth call the flop and then ship the non-heart turn? Maybe even get money out of AK or whatever V1 had? Do I pick up more fold equity against the donkey by shipping the turn? Or do you just get the donkey calling as a 69:31 dog on the flop and be happy about it?

Normally, I wouldn't even question my play, but I tend to NOT get paid off as often as I'd like and this was at the end of a -$600 session.

Well you don't want Fold Equity at all since you have a monster. And yeah ship it in on the flop.

You got your entire stack in good with dead money to boot. What's the problem?

I would probably have played this hand almost exactly the same way. The only difference is that I might have bet more than $15 on the flop. I also might have raised preflop myself, but with a read that someone behind you would raise, limping is definitely better. But these are really a small deal. The important thing is you shoved with a monster and got called.

Well, I guess the problem is, he isn't getting 69:31 odds, but he is getting relatively close to that. Probably about 60:40, maybe a little less. If I smooth call, he's a 4:1 dog going to the river and he's really making a major mistake to call my shove. And I may get action from an Ace if an ace hits the turn.

smooth calling can put you in a bad spot OTT in a 4way pot with somewhat undefined holdings. you probably would have gotten some more $, but I don't think you played the hand wrong per se. you really can't make a raise without committing anyways, so might as well jam the flop.

I think I always ship here, especially at the end of -$600 session so I don't hate myself and monkey tilt when the heart hits OTT.

Nice hand. The only thing I would have done differently is betting more than $15 OTF, somewhere between $25-35. Although I suspect your weak bet induced the raise from Villain1.

Ship ship ship. There's enough money in the pot where I'm happy with whatever villain decides to do (fold or call). Results oriented? Maybe. But after losing 2 BI in one night, I think that's defensible.

Pre limp UTG is horrible in these kinds of games I think. I probably fold 55 here 60% and raise 40%. But as played I bet bigger on the donk flop bet. You have to ship with all the dead money and you ran into the top of the villians range for this flop. Bad luck here with so many outs.



In my other thread I talk about how a friends theory differs from mine and this is a good example. But lets assume villian has AA here instead. Now if I am pretty sure I can get it all in on the flop 85%+ of the time vs villians range the I assume thats a good thing letting him draw to 2 outs. BUT she says why? Get it in on the turn so that he only has 1 card to come.

I get what she is saying but at any time if I can get my money all in preflop, flop, anywhere vs a dominated hand shouldnt I be doing that? She seems to believe to get them to commit on the turn with 1 card to come because their odds are cut in half.

????

What did you want to do?

Me, I want them all in the pot. I would raise to about $140, inducing, enticing, whatever. I would rather win one 3 or 4 way allin hogmonster pot every now and than attempt at blowing most everyone out of this pot. $40 to $250 is quite a jump for these players.

Also, I hear a lot lately about "was quitting for the day" or "this pot would make me loser for the day if i lost" etc. Anyone saying these things needs to revisit the idea of its all one long poker game.

The "I am quitting or protecting my chips" theory is not correct but a lot of players feel this way. My adivce is to just quit once that thought pops in. Dont sit and wait for the BB to come, just go!

I just read Tommy Angelo's Elements of Poker (and am in the middle of watching the EFP series on Deuces Cracked.) He says something very similar. In essence he says when you hear that voice start talking just get out. Away from the table... perhaps later over time we can work on why the voice starts yapping. It will include bank roll, tilt etc (I know it does for me).

IMO, you don't want to give him proper odds. If you do, you're not playing ideal poker.

My personal thinking: Some days I have pocket 5s, some days I have 8h6h. My money is made on putting opponents in tough spots (I would have never called in that situation as V3, probably would have shoved thinking I had a good deal of FE or would have folded) and calling shoves only when I have proper odds. I gain my edge by making them call with improper odds, not by having the set.

Really? Everyone donks this flop? I would simply C/R here considering I never actually make that type on small donk bet. Not that balancing ranges really matters against most of the players @ 1/2.

No, most times I am going to let the raiser lead the pot on the flop. But I had just shown down a hand where I led with bottom set on the flop and I figured everyone would put me on TP since I was doing it the very next hand.

Now that you said that, I'm curious why you think the hand you just mentioned is less interesting than this one.

Because it was a small, meaningless pot of about $30. Obviously, I should have checked that one and since I said out loud that I should have checked, I thought it set up hand 2 perfectly when I flopped another set. I think I even said, next time, I'm checking if I flop a set. So if they were paying attention it gives me a wider betting range here.

Last time I checked a small set, though, guy hit a two-outer on the turn and doubled through me. So I hate giving free cards. But the board was J62 rainbow, about as good as it gets.

How did you flop a set and make it to showdown with only $30 in the pot? To me this is far more interesting and more likely to contain at least one mistake in the hand.

Never said it got to showdown. I won the hand on the flop and my cards flipped up as I tossed them in the muck. I really have to stop tossing and just slide them ... can't tell you how often they flip up when I toss them.

And this was the previous hand, you took the exact same line, and you got stacks in? Sounds like the lesson from this hand should be that if you can show the table "this is how I play when I have a monster", and they still play against you when you take exactly the same line, there's not too much point in playing your monsters deceptively.

Yep. The guy who called even said that I flopped another set.

It's so rare for me to actually get action too.

With a set, get as much in as you can as soon as you can. Even if he hits a draw on the turn, you have 10 outs to redraw him. He does not have the odds to call so he did make a mistake by calling. Over time you win by forcing opponents mistakes.

If you have an overpair or TPTK, your opponent has (in his mind) the same number of outs and has the odds to call. In that case, let him make the mistake by giving him poor odds to call on the turn.

Giving your opponent a free card on the flop is not a mistake if you are 50/50 and he has the odds to call any bet. Giving a free card on the turn is a mistake. If you get it in on the flop, you are forced to give a free card on the turn.

In this case well played, you are not 50/50 on the flop, but do not play it that way with just an overpair where you are 50/50 against hands like combo pair/flush draw.

I ship here always. It applys pressure on the draws while getting maximum value from the flop when you know your good. I really only call the turn here if I'm willing to getaway from the hand on later streets. Stacks aren't deep enough to 3/4 pot the turn and have a tack left if you get drawn put on. Take the ~150 and be happy