Hello everyone
so basically life gets in the way , and I haven't played for 12+years (I know it sounds insane but it is the way it is). Finally I wanna get back to play some poker so I decided to ask you guys here (it took me a while to recall this forum's name LOL)

About me: I was just a straight forward player who barely beat the rakes. For the last 1000 hours I played in the $1/2 games at my local casinos in the year 2011, I made around $3500-4000. So I was making 2BB per hour I guess.

Should I be expecting the same calling stations, maniacs and old nits from 12 years ago in your average casino card rooms or they have gotten better?

Also I just saw a few videos on Youtube, what's with the small betting size nowadays? Like a quarter size bet or even smaller. That was pretty much unheard of 12 years ago.


Thanks everyone for your time

Best regards

KZ

I started playing in 2011ish, and while I don't play as much as others, I don't really notice much difference now at low stakes. Some people here say it's much tougher; I don't see it. I still see the same cast of characters you can make money from

Exact same. It’s kind of incredible—there’s been this massive explosion in poker theory over the last decade, but 90% of $1-$2 players are still limp-calling UTG with 98o or opening 15x cuz they hate pocket Jacks, etc.

Players are just as bad now as ten years ago. Rake is sadly higher, and a game with short stacks is in my cardroom barely beatable. Games with people buying in at 1/2 for over 150 BB are profitable.

The bad players are slightly less bad. In particular, there are fewer maniacs and more nits, but the calling stations are about the same. The mediocre players are bad in slightly different ways, but will use a lot of terminology that might make you think they are good until you observe by their play that they don't really understand it.

Small sizing OTF is all the rage, but I remain unconvinced, thinking its better to just be more selective about when to c-bet. It works well in tournaments though.

Theres a lot of really bad players still. I was away for a long time too and recently came back within the last 4 mos or so.

As far as the small cbet sizings, where ive found they work best vs fish is on flops where you want to start building a pot but its dry or semi dry. If you bet really small they sometimes just go crazy on you if theyre aggro, or if they are a station they cant resist calling the tiny size and then you can jack them with a bigger turn bet when they turn some additional equity and they will call the bigger turn bet more than if you had checked flop or bet for bigger size bc now they think youre trying to buy it.

Probably, all games 1/2, 1/3, and 2/5 are a little tougher. Sometimes with less crazy play now, it is easier to hand read and easier to bluff.

At 1/2 or 1/3, you will get people just donating. Maniacs repeatedly rebuying. Someone buying in for 100, and playing push/fold preflop, pushing 100 at 2 limpers, etc. Or someone who plays way too many hands and is used to much softer home games and never played in a public cardroom before.

Then they tend to call to much and not raise preflop or postflop. It is more extreme at 1/2 and 1/3, but you get loose/passive play at 2/5, and in 2/2 PLO, 10/20 limit games etc. 1/2 and 1/3 are easier to beat than any of those games with less swings, but hard to make a lot playing them. More people who just totally don't know what they are doing at 1/2 and 1/3.

I know solvers like small cbets HU, but with a 5-way pot and people calling light, you should usually either make a real bet or check. I see a lot of hands posted in this forum with bad small bets multiway, often when it is pointless just giving money in a pot you should give up on.

your small pairs and Axs hands are way up in value because people overplay their hands in chronic fear of being drawn out on.

suited connectors suck unless you are an expert. i dont have any delusions of being a tom dwan-level expert so i fold them without a second thought in most cases.

also word to the wise - be humble and never consider yourself better than anyone but the bad players. that way you target the bad players and avoid the good ones. thats the most +EV advice i can give.

There is an Upswing video which discusses how small pairs and Axs go up and suited connectors go down in multiway pot. The reasons are more that you want a hand that will make the nuts or close in loose play multiway. Suited connectors make worse flushes, worse straights, worse 2-pair, worse trips multiway against wide ranges.

gotta watch out for those guys 3betting j9o from OOP in 1/2 100 spread limit games tho.

Theory tells us that if we should bet and betsize is mostly dependant on potshare in terms of equity. So if we are 5 way on the flop it is quite rare that you have that much equity that it warrants a big bet.

If you have stations that don't understand exploit ability than you can do whatever you want. But in principle you don't want to bet 80 into 100 6way on a K57ss board with your AK or AA. I wouldnt go more than 33% in spots where we are strong but have to face 3-5 other players.

Games are overall tougher than 12 years ago. Back then, people would ALWAYS stack off with top pair. You could get 3 streets of value with AK vs A2 on a AT743 board. Now, almost everyone will fold A2 at some point in the hand.

Drooler whales are much more rare.

There's been a new type of bad player emerging though......the VLOG watchers. They watch some Brad Owen videos and learn just enough information to get themselves in trouble. Two days ago, I played with an early 20s WG who watched Brad Owen. At one point, he said with all seriousness "that was a mandatory cold 3-bet with pockets 4s pre-flop. Not doing so would have been just bad".......Same guy that leveled himself into calling a 2x pot bet all-in on the flop on an A82 monotone flop with KK (and no flush draw) because "it didn't make sense to shove AQ there".

Thank you everyone for the inputs.

I moved to Athens, Greece recently and apparently there are only two options and I just called them both:

a) 0.5/1 euro, min buy-in 50, no max buy-in, rake is 5% with 20 cap

b) 2/5 euro, min buy-in 200, max buy-in 1000, rake is 5% with 12 cap


is option a) even beatable with the rake and presumably low average low stack sizes?

b) sounds much better but it's like an hour of drive away and a) is literally just across the street from my apartment

Go check it out. If it is loose enough, it could be profitable. That cap sucks, but only 5%, which is nice. In my limited experience playing with Greeks, the game likely plays big and swingy with lots of loose action, but that's based on a small sample size, so take it for what it's worth.

i think games are way worse lol

It's very location-dependent I would say.

In my local casino, in a single raise pot, if you check raise on a 775 flop, you get KK folded to you faced up. The other time I check-raised on a A73 rainbow flop and got pre-flop aggressor folding AJ faced up. The way these nits fold them faced up, no matter correct or not, is pretty bad for the game, because other fish soon learn that they should be cautious to not call down three streets with top pair.

The other day I also heard the dealer saying that the game (1/2) is very different from 10 years ago. 10 years ago a lot of the time preflop there was a raise, a call, another call. Now you see lots of 3-betting, 4 betting and tough fold.

Obviously there are still lots of bad players and loose passive tables. Just that 'good players' need to keep improving to survive.

I recognize the screen name from way back in the day when you posted hands fairly regularly.

In my experience playing live, the passage of time isn’t always as important as location. I moved a few times in the last 12 years and I found game quality varied quite a bit when I moved—some better, some worse. So I’d hesitate to comment as I’m not in your location.

Also, Garick—there very well may be a big difference between Greek nationals and Greek immigrants, though my experience with Greek immigrants matches yours.

Just get some experience, I guess, OP. Watch out for mistakes like you should always be doing. Good luck!

5% with a 20 Euro cap is the same as they do in Germany. That is not bad in a .50/1 game, because most pots should be relatively small. It shouldn't be much worse than the good rakes in the US 10% with a $5 cap.

The games aren't great in my area. I'm moving to an area with cheaper rents and better games. Although I think players in all areas have gotten somewhat better.

Rake is higher

In spite of me always being a sky-is-falling type of guy, I've somehow managed to keep a ~relatively consistent winrate playing my 1/3 NL game week in / week out since 2010. My brain tells me the game is getting worse overall, but it isn't being reflected as much in my winrate as I would have thought (although perhaps tweaks I've made along the way have helped).

As mentioned above, the biggest difference is probably the increase in rake. My room was $5+$1 in 2010 but is now $9+$1+$1.

Ggoodluckandhavefun!G

I’m not sure you fully appreciate the damage to your winrate that can come from a cap that high.

Consider what happens if you get all in for $100 each. In the first scenario, you hit the cap at $400 so your $200 pot is fully raked for $10. That’s twice as much as the $5 cap, percentage notwithstanding.

10% with a $5 cap means the rake stops when the pot hits $50. The lower cap catches up quickly!

But 5% on a .5/1 game means there will be a lot of $50 and under pots, where the rake would be half what it is in 10% $5 cap. Plus you probably don't have to tip in Europe.

But you are trying to make up a gap of $5 per all-in pot (and possibly even more if you are playing deeper). How many small pots are you playing where you take 5% of that and it adds up to more?

With the 5% rake, you are paying less for all pots under 100 and more for over 100. In a .5/1 game, there will be a lot of times there is not a 100 BB pot. The 5% / 20 may wind up being a little more, but if there are no tips, it should be about the same.

I would assume wages etc. aren't that high in Greece, so .5/1 Euros is a reasonable stake for a lot of people.