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Balancing in a room Balancing in a room

12-12-2013 , 10:46 PM
Let's just say that due to your geographical location you only have the option of playing in 1 or 2 rooms. You play often, and within a period of 3 months you will pretty well known by the other regs.

Obviously in LLSNL most of your profits come from taking unbalanced lines and exploiting fish and bad-semi decent regs tendencies. However, isn't it best to balance against decent-good regs? This will help our win rate correct? And isn't it necessary to do before moving to 5/10? Do we have to suspect that they are beginning to exploit our tendencies before we do this?

I will post my opinion after some discussion.
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12-12-2013 , 10:58 PM
Just because they are regs, doesn't mean they aren't bad/exploitable/fishy.

Imo, making money from learning other regs tendencies is essential. I'm not saying just exploit them and profit, but also know when to get out of the way and make better reads.

Poker isn't about making friends at the table by being nice: Everybody wants to be friends with the winner.
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12-12-2013 , 11:01 PM
I've been playing almost exclusively in the same room for two years. Over about 600 hours, there are one or two regs who are starting to adjust to me. And they're adjusting badly. And I clearly recognize the adjustments. It only took me two days.

I wouldn't worry about it too much.
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12-12-2013 , 11:38 PM
One of the difficulties of balancing your range is that it is a level 3 move. I'm not fond of quoting FTP players, but Rafe Furst has it right. You want to play one level above your opponent, not more. If the villain is only playing his cards, there's no need to balance. It is when he is trying to put you on a range (not, you raised pf, you must have AK). Then there is profit in adding hands to your range. For example, you shove a turn. The villain know that a majority of the time, he's beat. However, he isn't getting pot odds to call even if your range included X% of garbage. He's forced to fold some potential winners.

If you get caught trying to make a level three move (I'm repping a set) when the villain is on level 1 (I've got an OP, that's a good hand), you're going to get burned. He'll miss the signal and get rewarded for sticking with his hand. In addition, you've trained your villains to call you down light, You'll have to nit up and value bet.
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12-13-2013 , 03:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. degen
Let's just say that due to your geographical location you only have the option of playing in 1 or 2 rooms. You play often, and within a period of 3 months you will pretty well known by the other regs.

Obviously in LLSNL most of your profits come from taking unbalanced lines and exploiting fish and bad-semi decent regs tendencies. However, isn't it best to balance against decent-good regs? This will help our win rate correct? And isn't it necessary to do before moving to 5/10? Do we have to suspect that they are beginning to exploit our tendencies before we do this?

I will post my opinion after some discussion.
if you are actually good, other regs will notice and start practicing avoidance.

despite what other posters say, balance is always important. people in this forum seem to think that everyone else at the table is a drooling idiot. most of the time, they are correct, but those drooling idiots are still watching you.

people notice things and players at the table will discuss things amongst each other. whether or not they are capable of making the proper adjustments and exploit you is a different concern. sometimes they annoyingly stumble upon a line that just happens to crush your range just because they saw something and decided to make a stand in a spot.

thinking about what you are doing with your ranges on certain boards/positions/vs opponents makes you a grow as a player. it is pretty essential if you want to evolve your game or be one of the crushers at your b&m casino

Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeraw22
I've been playing almost exclusively in the same room for two years. Over about 600 hours, there are one or two regs who are starting to adjust to me. And they're adjusting badly. And I clearly recognize the adjustments. It only took me two days.

I wouldn't worry about it too much.
thinly veiled brag imo
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12-13-2013 , 03:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
One of the difficulties of balancing your range is that it is a level 3 move. I'm not fond of quoting FTP players, but Rafe Furst has it right. You want to play one level above your opponent, not more. If the villain is only playing his cards, there's no need to balance. It is when he is trying to put you on a range (not, you raised pf, you must have AK). Then there is profit in adding hands to your range. For example, you shove a turn. The villain know that a majority of the time, he's beat. However, he isn't getting pot odds to call even if your range included X% of garbage. He's forced to fold some potential winners.

If you get caught trying to make a level three move (I'm repping a set) when the villain is on level 1 (I've got an OP, that's a good hand), you're going to get burned. He'll miss the signal and get rewarded for sticking with his hand. In addition, you've trained your villains to call you down light, You'll have to nit up and value bet.











this
Balancing in a room Quote
12-13-2013 , 04:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
One of the difficulties of balancing your range is that it is a level 3 move. I'm not fond of quoting FTP players, but Rafe Furst has it right. You want to play one level above your opponent, not more. If the villain is only playing his cards, there's no need to balance. It is when he is trying to put you on a range (not, you raised pf, you must have AK). Then there is profit in adding hands to your range. For example, you shove a turn. The villain know that a majority of the time, he's beat. However, he isn't getting pot odds to call even if your range included X% of garbage. He's forced to fold some potential winners.

If you get caught trying to make a level three move (I'm repping a set) when the villain is on level 1 (I've got an OP, that's a good hand), you're going to get burned. He'll miss the signal and get rewarded for sticking with his hand. In addition, you've trained your villains to call you down light, You'll have to nit up and value bet.

Right I understand this and against loose passives I just keep it simple and bet for value and do a lot of b/f on the turn and river. But I've noticed a lot better play in this game in the past 2 years. And also my goal is to eventually move to the 5/10 game. I'm not doing this for income, but I have been growing my bankroll and enjoy the challenge.
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12-13-2013 , 04:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeraw22
I've been playing almost exclusively in the same room for two years. Over about 600 hours, there are one or two regs who are starting to adjust to me. And they're adjusting badly. And I clearly recognize the adjustments. It only took me two days.

I wouldn't worry about it too much.
So what happens if they make the right adjustment? Continue with exploitable lines?!?! Avoid them all together?
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12-13-2013 , 07:30 AM
I think its extremely important to have a decently balanced range.....at lsnl it doesn't matter if the range is skewed massivley towards premium holdings because as long as you show down the occasional trash bag hand the villans will remember this more than all the times you had it.....remember that villans want you to be bluffing, they didn't drive to the casino to fold......but equally if they peg you as a nit always playing strong hands they will just avoid pots with you....if you show them 26o every so often they will have that nagging feeling in there mind that this time your doing it again and they don't want to be bluffed.....equally if you only play quality hands and the flop comes 266 its pretty hard for you to have hit the 6, so its a straightforward adjustment for them.
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12-13-2013 , 07:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. degen
So what happens if they make the right adjustment? Continue with exploitable lines?!?! Avoid them all together?
Did you not read the part about adjusting yourself? My point (not a brag eye roll) is that you shouldnt worry about it until you actually see it. It's a pretty safe assumption that they're not adjusting. Once they do it'll be pretty obvious and if you're paying attention you can address it quickly before they make any significant profit. But we really are talking about a very rare few in your pool if its a typical group.

Balance isn't important at all until V's prove they notice AND adjust properly.
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12-13-2013 , 02:53 PM
Spike, can you talk specifically about the adjustments/overadjustments that your opponents made and the way that you reacted to these changes?

I think the worst adjustment I see low stakes opponents make against aggressive players is, "Oh, he's raising too much. I'll start to call down lighter but won't put in a raise until I'm sure that I've got him beat."
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