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bad play? bad play?

12-17-2012 , 11:56 PM
$1-2NLHE. Casino. 1st hand of session. Hero in seat 2 of 9, posting from CO. Villain in Seat 9.

Hero($200)CO: mid 20's male, ex dealer of casino, knows many players. Tag, but not too tight, plays position.

Villain+2($550): mid 20's asian reg, generally pretty aggro and willing to force action (not only my opinion, but also told by reg/friend also at beg of session). Has the only real stack on the table
V2&3 SB&BB: unknown and irrelevant really.

folds to V who is UTG+2, limps. Hero looks at 56, checks. SB raise to $10, BB call, V call, Hero call.

Flop($40) 542

Blinds check, V bets $20. Hero calls. Blinds fold. HU to turn.

Turn($80): 2
V leads $50..

hero action to come.. comments/opinions on action?
bad play? Quote
12-18-2012 , 12:26 AM
you can call or raise both streets

i think you should call much more often though
bad play? Quote
12-18-2012 , 12:29 AM
it sucks that you have this knowledge that V likes to push action.

I think calling is terribad, simply because of the situation you put yourself in on the river...so i think fold>>jam>>>>>>>>>>call.
At the beginning of a sesh, I'm leaning towards a fold...wayyyyy better spots.
Even if we are ahead now, there are still a bunch of cards we dont like.
bad play? Quote
12-18-2012 , 12:32 AM
Does he understand position and what do you think his range is like calling a 5x the bb raise. I do not think he has anything that beats you in his range that he would not raise with pre flop. More likely he is being a bully. I think it is worth it here to raise him on the flop to 50$ do not let him get to the turn where he can really put pressure on you and a raise from you would likely commit your stack anyway.

Cliff Notes: Raise on flop to gauge his strength his bet on the turn could either represent great strength or a bluff and he has you in a position where to continue means most likley putting most of your chips in the middle.
bad play? Quote
12-18-2012 , 12:33 AM
He could definitely have a set here and I think 22 is right if he likes to force action you will get other chances.
bad play? Quote
12-18-2012 , 12:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rommel
you can call or raise both streets

i think you should call much more often though
you like calling hte turn? What happens when we dont hit a 3 or 5 (or 6 for that matter) OTR?
OP says V has no problem pushing action...what happens when he shoves? how happy are you calling with a small pair (even though it it top pair on board) with no kicker? I think V is def raising here pre with AT+/22+. Is he laggy enough to bet 3 streets with big cards? idk...
Even if he is, its NOT easy to call 3 streets with this hand...THAT is why I am either folding or shoving.

and I am calling pre all day IP

Last edited by 22dueces22; 12-18-2012 at 12:55 AM.
bad play? Quote
12-18-2012 , 12:46 AM
How much does he bluff?

If yes/lots. Call turn/river pretty much regardless (raise turn if a total gambler)
If not, pre/flop is fine, but fold turn.
bad play? Quote
12-18-2012 , 12:55 AM
I think that this hand becomes much easier to play if you raise the flop to $45 or $50. Doing so is going to allow you to win on the flop occasionally, and get checked to pretty frequently on the turn at which time (depending on card) you can elect to take one off or put in another bet.
As played on the flop, I don't like flatting the turn without a more specific read than the one provided. I think if you call the turn then he can fire with most or all of his range (overpairs, sets, 5-X, completed and missed flush draws, completed and missed gutshots, and perhaps a few naked high-card hands) and put you to a decision that typically results in you conceding the pot.

Short version: raising flop secures control and defines villain's range. calling turn creates an all-in river opportunity for villain that i think exploits the timidity of your play.
bad play? Quote
12-18-2012 , 04:22 AM
Fold pre.

As played call flop is fine but I fold turn.
bad play? Quote
12-18-2012 , 04:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stepierc
Does he understand position and what do you think his range is like calling a 5x the bb raise. I do not think he has anything that beats you in his range that he would not raise with pre flop. More likely he is being a bully. I think it is worth it here to raise him on the flop to 50$ do not let him get to the turn where he can really put pressure on you and a raise from you would likely commit your stack anyway.

Cliff Notes: Raise on flop to gauge his strength his bet on the turn could either represent great strength or a bluff and he has you in a position where to continue means most likley putting most of your chips in the middle.
I know he's a decent player, understands position, I don't think "5xBB raise" means much in a 1-2 game, to anybody, no offense. I would definitely Not discount any and all sets to be in his range, but also wouldn't discount any straight+flush draws, nut draws, and pair+draws, really Any kind of draw. Obv 22 becomes slightly less likely with the turn, and one could argue that as soon as the board pairs I should probably just give up with just top pair No kicker.
I Could raise otf, but I'd Rather turn a back door club draw n shove to a bet or get there cheaper than if I "bloat" the pot otf and he happens to lead out turn, still putting Me to a decision, even tho I agree a raise otf gives me charge of the hand while still being IP, a bit of information about his strength even tho I'm mostly likely getting Called by 95+% of his range, and am most likely being checked to ott.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 22dueces22
it sucks that you have this knowledge that V likes to push action.

I think calling is terribad, simply because of the situation you put yourself in on the river...so i think fold>>jam>>>>>>>>>>call.
At the beginning of a sesh, I'm leaning towards a fold...wayyyyy better spots.
Even if we are ahead now, there are still a bunch of cards we dont like.
I agree calling ott is the worst. Which is why, knowing he can be quite aggro at times, I elect to shove my $170 into his $50 bet and put him to a decision instead of seeing a multitude of river cards that I don't like. I can't argue a simple fold ott, but given my knowledge of the player, and feeling like the turn bet size was kind of sizable and trying to push me out (despite the pot size), and I Def don't think he's betting more than half PS if he filled up, IF he even bets at all. 66/77/88 definitely crossed my mind, and scares me when the turn pairs deuces, but I figured he would open with hands like that which is why I shove..
The Only reason I wouldNT hate a call ott, is so that I can Rep a flush otr when a dimnd falls and he checks to me, or if I think I'm possibly ahead I at least have some decent showdown value. Tho I'm not sure I have many bets other than to shove if I want to rep the flush :/

I shoved turn, he takes about 20--25 seconds to reluctantly call.

River 7. I show, he shows 99.. good start...rebuy!
bad play? Quote
12-18-2012 , 10:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 22dueces22
you like calling hte turn? What happens when we dont hit a 3 or 5 (or 6 for that matter) OTR?
OP says V has no problem pushing action...what happens when he shoves? how happy are you calling with a small pair (even though it it top pair on board) with no kicker? I think V is def raising here pre with AT+/22+. Is he laggy enough to bet 3 streets with big cards? idk...
Even if he is, its NOT easy to call 3 streets with this hand...THAT is why I am either folding or shoving.

and I am calling pre all day IP
v limped pre and based on our read for him...i dont think he has a pocket pair and unlikely(?) Ax

i think we are ahead with the 5 since the board is wet enough for him to be betting with all sorts of draws

i'm just trying to get the max in the pot...calling does this the best i think...just let him do the betting

Last edited by Rommel; 12-18-2012 at 10:45 AM.
bad play? Quote
12-18-2012 , 10:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rommel
v limped pre and based on our read for him...i dont think he has a pocket pair and unlikely? Ax

i think we are ahead with the 5 since the board is wet enough for him to be betting with all sorts of draws

i'm just trying to get the max in the pot...calling does this the best i think...just let him do the betting
this is all bad.
bad play? Quote
12-18-2012 , 10:52 AM
Because this is the beginning of the session and we are unsure if v limps pocket pairs, I'd probly tend to fold the turn and get some reads on the table. I don't really mind a call pf w position but I'm not looking to get into a big pot right away without a great flop.

The flop is pretty good for our hand but again we have no idea what villains range is, so I am probably calling the flop and folding to that ugly deuce on the turn.
bad play? Quote
12-18-2012 , 03:07 PM
I would have raised preflop. With only one limper to us in LP, a multiway hit-a-hand-stack-a-donk isn't really shaping up, so I think we're simply going to make more money overall by stealing the dead money or getting this HU / cbetting. As played, I also call the raise.

I probably also call the flop bet. I don't like that the preflop raiser could be going for a check/raise. But we could have upwards of 9 outs here against an aggro villain who offered us good odds. We could also rep some cards on the turn with our tight image. He could also slow down on the turn once we call the flop and we could have the option of taking a free card.

I probably give up on the turn, unless we're thinking of getting tricky, but I just don't think tricky is the best option most times.

GcluelessNLnoobG
bad play? Quote

      
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