So this is 2/3 NL 100-300 at the Bike in Los Angeles. I mention that it's in LA because I think it's a factor here but maybe not. This is a brand new table, we've been playing maybe 2 orbits before this happens. These two hands happened tonight and were literally back to back. Hero is playing 300 behind. V1 is a casual rec player mid 40s, V2 is a young reg, backpack and a hoodie, bought in with black chips. V3 is mid 40s reg I have played with before, looking to gamble.

Hand 1

V1 in MP1 limps, V2 MP2 opens to 20, V3 in SB calls, Hero calls in BB with KQcc, and V1 calls as well. Flop comes Jd10c4c. Hero checks, V1 shoves for 150, V2 shoves for 400, V3 shoves for 150. Hero?

Hand 2

Same V from V2 above opens in MP to 30, folds to Hero who calls in SB with A10hh. Flop is Kh8h5h. Hero checks, Villain checks. Turn Kd, Hero checks again, Villain leads for 40, Hero raises to 115, Villain shoves for 300 total effective. Hero?

the first hand I fold since I would think that my flush is dead. the second hand I would call and hope I don't see any high cards on the river. If I have reads on this guy that he would never ship without the mega nuts that's the only way I would fold.

yeah honestly I had the same thought about the flush potentially being dead. But the pot odds were juicy and I also had the over cards and straight outs, I dunno, it's close I think.

Hand 1: Tough situation. A live read on how the action went matters a lot here. If V2 reshoved because he has an OK hand and thinks V1 is shoving a draw then your probably getting the odds to play. If V1 seems to have a big hand and V2 still reshoved then a tight fold is likely better. Some read on how good V3 thinks his probable draw is matters a bit also because if he has a good draw then it likely blocks you. I won't really complain about folding or shoving. The problem I see is that so many flushes are blocked by your hand and the board that if somebody shoved a flush it's likely an ace high flush. Even if it's not one of the three likely has a flush draw and takes up your outs.

Hand 2: Call and hope the board doesn't pair or pair his hand. You have the nuts and villain already having a boat is too unlikely to worry about. It's a bit scary that villain is willing to shove but for all you know he has a lower flush.

Side pot is a significant factor in Hand 1 right? You are heads up with V2 for $260 in a spot where it's virtually impossible for you to not have a ton of equity. You also are always going to have at least six outs for the giant main pot. It's certainly possible your flush draw is live there sometimes too. I feel like I would call here.

Hand 2 looks like an easy call to me. How often is villain checking back a set or two pair on the flop? Wouldn't he often just call your check-raise on the turn if he has a full house? I think knowing the results of the previous hand might influence my decision here too, but I don't see how I could fold in your spot.

Calling both normally, absent reads.

Hand 1 I'm thinking that hu vs V2 we are in good shape, and just willing to gamble vs others who could have all sorts of TP or worse draws, not just nfd. Probably enough overlay even if nfd is there.

Hand 2, am I reading correctly that we call a 10x open in the sb as the first caller? Seems quite loose. Once you hit tho, I'm going with the hand, call the shove

H1:

I think there are arguments for all 3 plays preflop. Assuming V2 is a raisey aggro kid, I'd probably lean to a 3bet to $100 to setup a flop PSB jam. If he was a tight guy I would actually lean to a nit fold. Flatting for this amount (which is actually a huge 12% of stacks against 2 of the stacks) and creating this small SPR OOP is kinda meh, imo.

I'd plan on check/jamming this flop. As played, it's a math question. Looks like we're being asked to call $280 to win $660, so needing about 30% equity. I'm thinking we probably have enough outs to call here. Worse case scenario is that someone has a better flush draw, so that case hurts. And certainly possible someone has as set (although I'm pretty sure we have enough equity against sets). But with shortstacks involved everyone could also be overvalueing one pear too (and we're doing awesome against one pears).


H2:

What do we think of the villain? Typically the younger aggro guys are the better players in my game. Flatting preflop for a huge 10% of our stack to end up HU OOP to a good player is extremely meh, imo; do we really think this is a profitable spot? Probably some argument for a 3bet if he is raising a wide range to 10x. But otherwise just a fold for me.

SPR is 5 so we can play for stacks with 3 small bets. I might consider donking small as it would suck for him to check back a street and make stacks difficult to play for.

Against aggro players I wouldn't mind a turn check but it is to trap aggro players, so I don't think I would check/raise it (as now we loose all his bluffs and it is unlikely he has a semi-bluff as we block those). If checking, I would just check/call and check the river again hoping to induce.

As played, I think we're just forced to stack off here.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Appreciate the thorough response. Yeah I feel like I played a couple streets poorly in both of the hands. The real problem I think is that in California in general you are forced to buy in too shallow for the game, creating a lot of these spots where you are playing for stacks with somewhat marginal/vulnerable hands.

On another note, maybe I am not familiar enough with the forum, but what do you mean by "GcluelessNLnoobG"? Is this meant to be an insult? I mean I get it, I am not exactly a 50/100 crusher or anything, that's why I come on here, to try to get some advice on how to improve my game, not really sure how this comment is helpful really, unless I am just misinterpreting it. Thanks again for the response and insights, though!

I purposely play fairly short in my 1/3 NL / high raked game, BI'ing (and auto-topping off) for $200. It's not really a "problem". It's just that you have to play it solidly, which, imo, is extremely tight. Which is mostly how we win, because most players can't bring themselves to play that tight. So yeah, unless I'm getting a cheap price with a speculative hand in position, the vast majority of hands I'm playing I'm mostly looking to get in my stack ASAP (which I attempt via a limp/reraise from most positions).

The GcluelessNLnoobG is in reference is to me; no insult intended.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Hand #1 I call and hope that if somebody has the nut flush draw it's one of the shorter stacks. Can't fault a fold but in a gambooly game with a 100BB max buyin at a brand new table, the chance to pot up to 300 or more BB is such a huge advantage.

Hand #2 I lead this 1/2 pot. V will assume you have a naked Ah type hand. You might get raised on the flop. Also much more likely to get calls on this board than somebody leading out if you check. As played I call. You are probably still way ahead of AK/KQ type hands. If he shows up with 88 it's a cooler.

One of the reasons for me to call in hand 1 is the chance to build a $1000ish stack and be able to play big pots with others who get deeper. That negates the California flat rake at least a little.

Hand 2 obviously looks like AK/KK with that huge preflop raise and the postflop action. We're already getting close to 3:1 on a call here after our $115 raise. Even if we add 88 to his range, we only need the two remaining AKs combos to have a break-even call. I would need an extremely strong read to even consider folding here.

FYP

I appreciate all of the responses fellas. No harm intended, gobbled, I appreciate your advice. Yeah I have just never had that happen to me before where stacks get in on back to back hands within 15 minutes of sitting down, I wanted to make sure I didn't play these spots horrendously...I mean I didn't play them perfectly, but I think calling on both is reasonable. If anyone actually wants to know how they played out, DM me and i'll reveal opponent hands, as my understanding is that on here we don't give the results to avoid result-oriented thinking. Thank you all again, and any more advice is sincerely appreciated!

You can definitely post results here once you got a decent amount of replies.

H1: fold IMO but I’m not sure. You’re almost certainly chopping (50% equity) on the side, so you can neglect that and treat this as a 4way all in for 150. You’re likely up against a combination of two pair+ and Axdd in the 4way main, so you’re drawing to 6 outs twice.
H2: call and it’s not close for me.

Ahh ok makes sense. For what actually happened...

H1 -- I tank called was actually in better shape than I thought, V1 didn't show but told me he didn't have clubs, V2 had J10, V3 had AQo. Turn was a 10, and that was that.

H2 -- I ended up snapping it off and he had 88, drawing dead. The 3 bet shove is so strong, but I couldn't picture him having any made value hands on the flop that wouldn't be scared enough by the monotone board to bet, so I pretty much discounted 88. Live and learn I guess.