I'm wondering what people think the optimal attitude towards donks is. I'm not talking about the bad players. I'm talking about the guys that are so bad that they're going to donate hundreds of dollars to the table no matter how lucky they are....guys that are just horrible. Complete droolers. Are you nice to them? Do you antagonize them? Do you treat them just like everyone else at the table?

I used to try to befriend them so that they felt entertained and were having a good time, but now I'm having second thoughts.

Here's two experiences that got me thinking about this topic.

1. One very drunk donkey was burning through about $100 every 15 minutes. I was sitting right next to him. I tried to be really friendly with him in hopes that he would keep pulling out hundreds instead of leaving. His reaction, "I like you man. Let's make a deal. Let's not play any pots against each other". WTF....ughhh. Talk about backfiring.

2. This just happened tonight. A donkey made himself the table sheriff. He wouldn't fold his cards unless he convinced the bettor to show at least one of their cards if he folded. He would always show both of his cards when the hand was over and expected everyone to do the same. He was pretty much trying to ensure that there was as little bluffing going as possible. He was a total beginner and looked like the kind of guy that got in a lot of bar fights.

Anyways, we played a pot together. He raised UTG, I 3 bet in CO with AK. Flop came T72. He led for $25. I popped it $75 knowing that this guy was eventually going to fold after a speech. I told him that I would show one card (of course it would look like AA or KK). The guy next to me intervened and said I should show both of them for $5. I said ok, let's do that instead. I'll show you both after you fold for $5. The guy folds AT face up and doesn't throw me any money. I hold my cards over the muck and say "last chance". After no response, I mucked my cards.

This guy got so irate. I haven't seen anyone that pissed in a while. He's was going off about how I said I'd show card. I told him, "Sorry, man. I thought you understood the deal changed. I thought it was $5 for both cards". He was fuming; not only at me, but at the guy who brought up the idea of $5 to show both cards.

He looks like he's ready to throw down with both of us. He says, "I'm coming after your chips!" and points to me. He says, "I'm coming after your chips!" and points to the guy next to me. He then goes into his wallet and throws another $300 in bills in his stack (which put him about $250 over the max buy-in, but obviously no one minded).

I accidentally had this donkey seeing red and targeting my stack! Awesome!

I like to be a nice guy at the table, but I'm starting to think that being a dick might be more profitable.

I'd be interested in hearing other people's experiences and if you think it matters if your attitude towards donkeys affects your bottom line at all.

In my experience there are two types of donks.

1) Donks who are psychos
2) Donks who aren't psychos

The first type are the ones who are just completely socially ******ed and ****** crazy. I would not be surprised if they're the type to hide in a bush and jump you in the parking lot. So I do my best to avoid talking to them period. They tend to be a lot worse than the second type but I don't even care enough to keep them entertained. I'm genuinely afraid of getting stabbed by those psychos.

The second type is great! Usually very talkative and friendly anyways. I would never ever berate them EVER! It is the worst possible thing you can do. I'd always always be chatty with them and keep them entertained. Think Daniel Negreanu. He'll destroy you but it's fun playing with him so if you're a fish you might reload once or twice more than you planned to.

As for the guy you mentioned, unless he was drinking he seems to be more of the first type. I'd just be polite and ignore him as much as possible.

I have developed a table persona that is friendly but at the same time has come to the casino to play.

I'm adamant about playing and I say, "I would check raise my own grandma and slow roll her if it would put her on tilt..."

I make sure the table knows I don't check it down ever and that I always play my hand. But at the same time I'm very friendly and courteous. I use humor to deflect and I always say, "Sorry, I can't check it down, I always play my hand, just play your hand..."

I've never had any problems. On the rare occasion someone gets mad, I simply say, "Hey, not trying to be a dick, I just come here to play and I always play my hand..."

As far as my treatment of donks goes, I'm always nice to them. I want them and EVERYONE at my table to have a good time and to have a pleasant experience. I want them happy and donating money all night.

If I ever take someone for a huge pot (especially if it is a cooler or a suck out) I pretty much force the menu on them and have them order something from it while I pay. I've found that being friendly like this goes a long way for easing bad feelings and making them have a good experience. Similarly, when they beat me, I'm always congratulatory and I try to be sincere. I say things like, "Hey, we all came here to have fun and gamble, nice hand, you gotta go with your guts sometimes..." and then I like to deflect onto the dealer and say things like, "Paul, how could you do this to me, your sleeping on the couch no lovin for you tonight!!!"

That table laughs, the player that just sucked out on me laughs, tension goes away, and most importantly the player keeps playing horribly without feeling guilty...

In any event, I'm adamant about making sure everyone is having a good time, a happy table is a more profitable table for us....

DGI nailed it!

This is very well said & is a great approach to take at the table. Winning players have to remember their biggest source of profit in the long run comes from those recreational players who are there to have a good time. Headphones, no talking, & whining about beats totally distracts from that experience. I know it's not in everybody's personality to provide a "mini-casino" experience & cater to the losing players, but, the more that winning players take the approach DGI outlines, the more $ they will make in the long run.

And...a better experience for all.

I try to be friendly, but not a friend. That means I'll say hello, help carry on the conversation, smile, and generally be pleasant. If state I'll do something, I'll do it. However, I don't act like I'm their new best friend.

Your mistakes in this is you ended up being the first player's best friend and you broke your word. You promised the first player you'd show. Maybe in your mind he agreed to break it, but in his mind you were still bound to showing one card. I wouldn't have gotten pissed off about it, but you dug the hole you're in.

This sums it up.

Pretty much my exact approach. I would like to add that if you start 3 betting or isoing the "psycho" type of donk he will eventually get pissed and play back at you which is a good thing (this is situational dependent, stack size etc, frequency of his raises and ability to fold post etc). At the same time, you won't appear to be a jerk and the table may think you are a bit looser than what you are. Win, win.

The only problem is that you may give up some "not-getting-stabbed" EV. Reads are important

Don't be a dick. Imagine being a fish that's only there to have fun and someone at the table is being a dick and making people miserable. Maybe that jerk is a much better player than you because you're a fish. That doesn't sound like fun, and suddenly your biggest reason for playing (having fun) isn't a reason to play at all.

I've seen people chase fish away from the table simply because they were mean to them. It's not uncommon for fish to be chased off simply because someone was being a dick. You also bring extra attention to yourself, and people are more likely to study the way you play and remember how you play.

I remember Negreanu saying that he didn't like the tough guy image that a lot of players try to have. Instead, Negreanu said "I'll still take your chips, but we're gonna have a great time while I'm doing it."

I always make an effort to be cordial to everyone at the table, no matter what kind of a poker player they are. Acting like an A-hole is more likely to drive recreational players away from the game than give you some sort of an advantage by goading someone into aggressively going after you.

It's just more pleasant to play in a game with nice guys/women.

At least in my case, even if I thought there was a slight advantage, I wouldn't feel like making a little more money would justify being a dick.

My goal at the table is to be nice and try to facilitate a fair and fun game, while not giving off the impression that I am a serious player.

Just be nice and talk to them every once and a while if they are seated next to you. Honestly I wouldn't talk about my hands, if they keep pestering I would just tell them that I lie most of the time anyway.

I assume this is just a joke and part of the saying, but slow rolling is bush league under just about any circumstances I can think of.

Checking it down/soft playing is BS and one of my biggest pet peeves at the casino. If you want to dick around with your friends, go play a home game. Picking out one or two guys at the table and soft playing them is essentially collusion.

This is just one example from a long list of things I dislike about many "regulars" in poker rooms.

Slow rolling known slow rollers and angle-shooters is mandatory IMO.

I try to be nice to everyone else.

yeah, just part of a joke/saying that I like to announce to the table to get some laughs. Obvious I rarely if ever slow roll. the only people I slow roll are.... =>

=> douche bag slow rollers and angle shooters that absolutely deserve it. I can count on one hand all the times I've done a slow roll, and in each case boy did they deserve it...

true, but the pros outweigh the cons. 98% of the time, the check it down crowd is not intentionally colluding and they are just there to have fun. So, they have their fun and donate their money to us grinders so it all works out in the end

Not to mention whenever they say, "Want to check it down" they have just handed me the green light to blast them off their hand. I reply, "Sorry, I can't check this hand down..." and then I lower da boom

Fwiw, I've never slow rolled anyone thru many hours of live poker nor do I ever intentionally plan to. I've had guys who gave me the most painful slow roll ever after saying 'good call" and I didn't say a word. Later I've beat them in pots & tabled my hand immediately with the obvious best hand. I think it shows how egregious their behavior is when I don't stoop to their level when given the chance to do so.

Just feel like if I make an "exception" on when it's acceptable to slow roll than it sets a standard for others to do so in cases that they deem an "exception" (which may be far from any kind of reasonable exception). Plus, novice players might see it as ok behavior.

It creates bad blood at table & is not good for the game long term.

Another spot on post by the DGI man himself

I actually wanted to start the same thread two weeks ago.

I think if you see yourself having a talent to create a positive environment at the table through jokes and general good behaviour you should absolutely do that. The poker room in the Casino I play in is pretty small, so after a very short while pretty much everybody knows me. I don't do bad etiquette or angle-shooting, point it out when necessary and always try to lighten the mood around the table. In my eyes people that are obviously losing money long-term need to have a positive experience and I'll try to accomplish that (and quite frankly I think I have a talent there).

I am at the same time very serious about the game and everybody understands that, even bad players sometimes think they are serious about the game. It is not always possible, but with a good table I can create laughs and good time for most people involved and this is always one of my goals in order to make more money out of them.

But there are always certain people that dislike me for whatever reason, mostly because I win more than they do. In most cases they are so nice to verbalize their anger with me and I can see and feel their aggression. Hence it is usually very easy to use their aggression and anger against them. Check-raising becomes easier against this player type, as well as huge overbets, because they finally want to beat you in a big pot (value bet >>>> bluff in those situations).

In the end no matter what sentiments players have towards me, it matters most to identify what kind of sentiments those are.

But I would always choose to try to make the table feel positive and entertained, because in my personal belief, there is the most money to be won.

(Personal anecdote: I've made a 'friend' in the casino where I play and I always try to keep him around, as he usually loses the biggest amounts in the game I play. It came so far, that I am sometimes lending him money (he is absolutely good for it) and that I visited him outside of the casino. He is a very nice and good person, which I very enjoy, but at the same time a very bad poker player (which funnily he is aware of) with deep pockets.)