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ATo NL400 Thin value ATo NL400 Thin value

07-19-2010 , 10:30 AM
I think this hand is pretty std. until the river. I just can't understand with what range he is checking behind on the turn and raising the river...

I have him as 23/11, Fcbet 56, Afq: Flop, turn and river all 33. Raise cbet 10. 6k hands


$2/$4 No Limit Holdem
7 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($462)
Hero ($796.65)
MP ($181)
CO ($400)
BTN ($235.10)
SB ($451.20)
BB ($413.80)

Pre-Flop: ($6, 7 players) Hero is UTG+1 A 10
1 fold, Hero raises to $12, 1 fold, CO calls $12, 3 folds

Flop: 4 J 6 ($30, 2 players)
Hero bets $24, CO calls $24

Turn: J ($78, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

River: 10 ($78, 2 players)
Hero bets $50, CO raises to $152

HERO?
ATo NL400 Thin value Quote
07-19-2010 , 11:44 AM
is he capable of bluffing a busted fd there?
would he float a fd on the turn?
i think ur beat here most of the time so i like to fold given that he can definitely slowplay a fh on the turn bc there r not too many hands in your range which c/c the turn
ATo NL400 Thin value Quote
07-19-2010 , 01:09 PM
Yo I think that he would bluff here with most draws, which means his hand has some sort of value when we get to the river. It might be as weak as JQ or as strong as JT, but can also be TT (obv unlikely since we have AT), or 44/ 66. Just not sure he'd ever try to turn 88/99 into a bluff. I think I fold. I also probably check the river unless I've bet/check/bet as bluffs against this guy a lot.
ATo NL400 Thin value Quote
07-19-2010 , 03:14 PM
fish/weridos don't bluff often, so just fold unless u remember them having a reason to hate u, or taking this line as a bluff vs someone else.
ATo NL400 Thin value Quote
07-19-2010 , 05:34 PM
To clarify, I meant that I think he will bluff here with draws ON THE TURN
ATo NL400 Thin value Quote
07-19-2010 , 05:36 PM
prolly a fold
ATo NL400 Thin value Quote
07-19-2010 , 10:03 PM
jack or TT imo
ATo NL400 Thin value Quote
07-19-2010 , 10:16 PM
I think CO is thinking you can't have a J, so he's only getting one more street. Seems kind of ******ed not to bet turn, unless he has jxh.
ATo NL400 Thin value Quote
07-19-2010 , 10:21 PM
Alternatively, I've seen some people do some desperate **** once they miss their draw, plus you look weak. But you need some kind of read on villain to call.
ATo NL400 Thin value Quote
07-20-2010 , 04:11 PM
Go all in yo! Rep tha TT!
But yo what do you do with the rest of your range here? Do you bet draws again? Overpairs? What do you do with 44/66?
ATo NL400 Thin value Quote
07-22-2010 , 03:48 AM
i think u should either c/c river or bet like 1/3 or 1/4 pot, that way if he spazzes out like this it's much cheaper to bluff catch..

i just don't see what worse hand you expect to call your 2/3 pot bet on river.. 88, 99?
ATo NL400 Thin value Quote
07-22-2010 , 10:43 AM
as played easy fold.. wrong river bet c/c 4ever let him take opportunity to bluff or vb himself
ATo NL400 Thin value Quote
07-22-2010 , 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowlane123
i think u should either c/c river or bet like 1/3 or 1/4 pot, that way if he spazzes out like this it's much cheaper to bluff catch..

i just don't see what worse hand you expect to call your 2/3 pot bet on river.. 88, 99?
I have to balance my pure bluffs as well don't I? So I hope to see a call from any pair.
ATo NL400 Thin value Quote
07-22-2010 , 07:43 PM
I dunno I think your river bet is fine, esp if you plan on bluffing these spots a lot....
ATo NL400 Thin value Quote
07-22-2010 , 09:10 PM
Standard, assuming you folded. It's a horrible board for him to try a bluff out of nowhere, unless he doesn't know what he is doing.
ATo NL400 Thin value Quote
07-27-2010 , 02:06 PM
Pre is pretty bad unless scout is in the bb.

Flop i would bet less, and river looks like an easy fold.
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07-27-2010 , 05:48 PM
this is the classic fish trap line. how many times have you cbet top pair vs fish on FD board, flush comes in on turn, you check to fish, fish checks back, you bet brick river and get minraised? this is the same thing except its a jack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pskroes
I have to balance my pure bluffs as well don't I?
i dont think you have to balance anything vs this player.
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08-01-2010 , 12:12 AM
why this fish trap line?
if he can get more than 150$ in his line and dont put you on flush draw?

what the line you woud choose with j?
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08-04-2010 , 04:01 PM
Call.
1. Missed draws everywhere
2. It looks like you are bluffing. You c-bet flop, then checked on a drawy board on the turn. Then bet 2/3 pot on the river. You hardly ever have a jack or a full house here, and villain knows this.
3. Getting 2.8-1. You only have to be right like 27% of the time.
4. Villain rarely has a jack. He checked behind the turn when he could easily bet for value and get looked up by hands as weak as ace high because he can be bluffing that turn so often.
5. Because villain rarely has a jack, only hands that make sense are a 4's full, 6's full, and ten's full, that would take this line. They are all possible, but rare, so I think it is about even money between these and his bluffs. With 2.8-1 it seems like he has air at least 27% of the time (and probably much more) so I call here.
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