Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Aria 2/5NL - JJ in the straddle - Brag/Line check Aria 2/5NL - JJ in the straddle - Brag/Line check

03-27-2015 , 03:37 PM
Ok I'll start out that this is both a brag and line check thread.

The game is $2/5 NLH live at the Aria, most of the table has been straddling to $10 UTG every hand (i will take the credit for that). I've got a winning image, and have been showing down mostly winners but did get caught bluffing in a recent hand. Its 9am and we've been playing all night, game is super juicy, loaded with drunken tourists in for the NCAA tourney.

Hero UTG (~$2700) JJ with $10 straddle out. There are 6 limpers preflop so I raise to $50. Villian is mid position ($800) and just calls the $50. I have been playing with him for a few hours, seems like a regular, 50+ black guy wearing a ton of flashy fake jewelry. Talked a lot, was giving off impression he didn't care about money and was rich. I didn't believe him. Hadn't seen him show down too many hands, just saw him get to showdown and muck about 3 times. The one hand I did see, he won a big pot against aces with 97s and caught a third 7 on river after check calling the whole way in EP. He was stuck 1k and was on his second buy-in. Most times seemed like he was passively chasing draws.

Flop comes AA2 Pot is $140, I bet out $80 and villian insta calls. And I mean INSTA.

Turn comes 9 Pot $300 and I check. Villain grabs 3 $100 bills and INSTA throws them into the pot. At first, I think he's super excited about a big hand and I almost fold. But than I go into the tank for about 3 mins. During that time the guy acts super cool, talking to everyone, seeming relaxed. The longer I sit and think about it, the more I wonder why an ace would bet so much in the spot. My check looked weak, and I'm sure he's not putting me on an ace at this point. I don't very often see people semi-bluff a paired board so large either and not semi-bluff the flop, so with those two points in mind, plus the fact that he bet so fast and he was talking so much I called. To limp, call a large raise pre-flop, it couldn't be the super premiums so I take these out of his range, just seems like it must be a pair of some kind, and I just didn't believe that he had an ace.

River 3 Pot is $900. I check once again. Villain shoves for $370. My hand looks like an under pair to aces at this point, maybe an unimproved ace afraid of a flush. At this point i'm kicking myself for not going with my read, and just shoving the turn if i thought I was good there, because this spot really sucks. I took my time and calmed down a bit, and tried to think about it logically. That full pot bet on the turn, I decided was designed to get me to fold and i really just didn't think he'd do that with a FD so I called. He turned over 77 and I scooped a nice $1640 pot.

Was there any way i could have played this to make my life easier? If I check the flop, he may have just checked back most of the way and we would've played a much smaller pot. This of course is easier, but I'm not getting as much value out of my hand. Think the guy just wanted to out-play me on this one.

Side note, spent a week in Vegas and Aria by FAR had the best action for the $2/5 and $5/10 NLH games....the $2/5 PLO game was actually pretty good, as far as live PLO is concerned. Can't wait to go back in May/June for the WSOP. Hope the side game action is there and not at the Rio.
Aria 2/5NL - JJ in the straddle - Brag/Line check Quote
03-27-2015 , 04:22 PM
I would check/Fold on turn unless I have a good read on the V
Aria 2/5NL - JJ in the straddle - Brag/Line check Quote
03-27-2015 , 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanghai

Was there any way i could have played this to make my life easier?
Yes. You could have popped it up to $100 preflop, not so big that everyone knows you have jacks and not a squeeze, but large enough to bring the SPR (in hindsight) to 3.5 or so. Much easier to play OOP with second pair. The nit in me might have tempted me to bump it up even higher. (I apologize for the obvious answer.)
Aria 2/5NL - JJ in the straddle - Brag/Line check Quote
03-27-2015 , 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanghai
Flop comes AA2 Pot is $140, I bet out $80 and villian insta calls. And I mean INSTA.
Instant call is a strong indication of weakness. An ace would have at least considered raising to charge the flush draw.

Last edited by $FishWreck$; 03-27-2015 at 05:00 PM.
Aria 2/5NL - JJ in the straddle - Brag/Line check Quote
03-27-2015 , 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanghai
Turn comes 9 Pot $300 and I check. Villain grabs 3 $100 bills and INSTA throws them into the pot. At first, I think he's super excited about a big hand and I almost fold. But than I go into the tank for about 3 mins. During that time the guy acts super cool, talking to everyone, seeming relaxed. The longer I sit and think about it, the more I wonder why an ace would bet so much in the spot.
He would bet that much b/c he is now confident that he isn't outkicked and he doesn't want to get stacked by a FD that hits. (This doesn't mean he should bet so much.)

I don't know if an instant bet is a sign of weakness usually, but I think it is here. Put yourself in V's shoes. You have just hit an extremely visible flush draw, and you think you have a chance of doubling up 160 bb's. Throwing $300 instantly into the pot like you are extremely strong is the last thing you will do instinctually. His first instinct would be at least to pause for a second like he doesn't have it.

I think the turn was a fold without reads, but it looks like you at least had physical reads. I think these have a tendency to lead most players astray, but sometimes they can be the difference. You may have also picked up a little forced confidence in V's turn bet and it may not translate well into this thread. Obviously, turn was a shove or fold.

All in all, well played hand I think. This might have been one of those hands where you had to be there to evaluate it.

Last edited by $FishWreck$; 03-27-2015 at 05:00 PM.
Aria 2/5NL - JJ in the straddle - Brag/Line check Quote
03-27-2015 , 04:52 PM
[ ] Bragworthy
Aria 2/5NL - JJ in the straddle - Brag/Line check Quote
03-27-2015 , 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel9861
[ ] Bragworthy
Guess you are a really good player. A soulread for two streets for 134BB out of position may be business as usual for you, but not that easy for me :P
Aria 2/5NL - JJ in the straddle - Brag/Line check Quote
03-27-2015 , 05:15 PM
It's just one of the best hands you can bluff catch with. And his line doesn't make sense.
Aria 2/5NL - JJ in the straddle - Brag/Line check Quote
03-27-2015 , 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel9861
And his line doesn't make sense.
My initial reaction as well, but then I thought about it. V limp/called to set-mine with his 7's. (Hero gave him odds to do so.)

Then, villain peeled the flop with the intention of stealing if Hero checked. There was little chance hero would have checked the turn with an ace and the FD on the board. If a spade hit, all the better. It is also possible hero doesn't double barrel with air very much and villain picked up on this.

Not a bad line really.
Aria 2/5NL - JJ in the straddle - Brag/Line check Quote
03-27-2015 , 06:05 PM
The ace of the front door FD is on the board, so how is OP going to have a FD raising big from the straddle? He's popping it with KQs OOP into 6 players?

I'd actually raise more pre.

Flop is fine.

Checking the turn is ok here, but I'd rather just bet. This player is going to c/c a few streets with a pair of 7s in a previous hand, there's no reason to think he's going to raise you on this turn with a similar type hand. Bet for value.

As played on the river, it really sucks that spades get there, but you have to decide how often you think he's going to be bluffing this spot. With him firing pot OTT, it seems like spades would be unlikely and I'd probably call as well. You're going to lose to an ace a fair amount of the time here as well as the smaller boats with 22 and 99 (33 seems very unlikely), but you're getting over 3:1, I probably just pay him off.
Aria 2/5NL - JJ in the straddle - Brag/Line check Quote
03-27-2015 , 06:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hfrog355
The ace of the front door FD is on the board, so how is OP going to have a FD raising big from the straddle? He's popping it with KQs OOP into 6 players?
Sorry for my language - I meant there would have been little chance that hero would check the turn with a flush draw on the board if hero held an Ace.
Aria 2/5NL - JJ in the straddle - Brag/Line check Quote
03-28-2015 , 03:18 AM
Not knowing what you're going to do otr before you act ott is a mistake.
Aria 2/5NL - JJ in the straddle - Brag/Line check Quote
03-28-2015 , 09:48 AM
Why would you want to knock Villain off of his hand by shoving over the top on the turn?? If V has a flush draw, he's still calling an all-in given remaining stack. By flatting the turn, you give V a chance to still bluff off his remaining stack off with air or small pairs as he did on the river.

Good read and well played hand.
Aria 2/5NL - JJ in the straddle - Brag/Line check Quote
03-28-2015 , 10:15 AM
You have to raise more pre. With a $50 raise, everyone is looking at calling $40 more into a $110 pot. They all have position on you. They're getting a great price. Stacks are deep. I'm surprised there wasn't more callers.

There's a ton of money in pre. Pop it to a $100 and be thrilled with $60 in variance-free money when they all fold.
Aria 2/5NL - JJ in the straddle - Brag/Line check Quote
03-28-2015 , 10:21 AM
I agree a bit more pre...I don't think 100 is necessary though.

Oh and this hand is really not very interesting
Aria 2/5NL - JJ in the straddle - Brag/Line check Quote
03-28-2015 , 11:06 AM
Shanghai - do you told if he shoves the river?

Also, what play should the villan make on the flop or turn to get you to fold?
Aria 2/5NL - JJ in the straddle - Brag/Line check Quote
03-28-2015 , 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by battagd1
Also, what play should the villan make on the flop or turn to get you to fold?
There are so few hands that V can limp a straddle, call a raise and then be ahead of OP with that I don't know if there is a play OTF to which OP should fold. The line just doesn't make sense.

On the turn, OP can be behind basically only 22 and 99. IMO, there are very few aces in V's range and certainly more in OP's.
Aria 2/5NL - JJ in the straddle - Brag/Line check Quote
03-29-2015 , 11:53 AM
Hfrog - could Villan limp with A2s, A10s, AJ, A9s and then call $50 because of other players calling?

I wouldn't but this villan plays 97 so the hands above have to be on his range.

I agree that the bet sizes don't represent the hands above.
Aria 2/5NL - JJ in the straddle - Brag/Line check Quote
03-29-2015 , 11:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldiesel
Not knowing what you're going to do otr before you act ott is a mistake.
So do you snap make every river decision?
Aria 2/5NL - JJ in the straddle - Brag/Line check Quote
03-30-2015 , 12:45 AM
I know what I'm going to do but I usually wait a few seconds. If Vs think I'm never thinking ahead that can't hurt me. I see guys all the time raise/tank-fold or call a big turn bet and when a brick river hits they tank-call otr. You still need to figure out how to exploit them but those are big indicators of the fact that they're losing players.
Aria 2/5NL - JJ in the straddle - Brag/Line check Quote

      
m