$1/2 no max BI


PREFLOP:

Straddled from button to 5
SB folds
BB folds
Hero (covers table) UTG with AhQh opens to 15
UTG+1 (485) makes it 40
UTG+2 calls all in with 10
folds back to hero, who makes it 125
UTG+1 calls.

Relevant information: I am viewed as being pretty LAG. I probably 3 bet more here than any other player, and I 4 bet pretty often. I've 5 bet a few times as well, but not really enough for it to mean much overall. I'm a very winning player so far in this game, and I'm not sure if I'm just viewed as being crazy aggro or if opponents realize I am actually picking very good spots. UTG+1 likes to 3 bet light (vs me especially because I'm very LAG) and is a solid MTTer. I know that he is thinking that his 3 bet to my open looks very strong, and he will be doing this with a premium hand, suited small gappers, or something like AJ/KQ/QJ/KT. The majority of the time it is weighted to the suited gappers, and about an even chance of the premiums and AJ/KQ/QJ/KT sort of hands.

I have 4 bet pretty regularly against UTG+2 in the past and others in the game; and my 4bet is polarized. I elect to 4 bet here to 125, because if 5bet shoves it is with a range of hands that AQ is ahead or if he folds I am glad to pick up the money. Instead he elects to flat. The flat here versus me is strongly indicative of a non-premium holding. He may mix in some premium hands to flat with, but so far never has taken such a line vs me with premiums. For this reason I think his range is weighted strongly toward suited gappers.


Flop (268): 8 5 2, 2 spades.

Hero?

What I did:


What he had:


I'm really not interested in how he played the hand, mainly my decisions as I went. For what it's worth my reads are pretty spot on in this game as it is a regular game with lots of info on opponents. The game is a bit of a aggro 1/2 game, including a triple crown winner with 7 figures online cashes, and 2-3 other very solid winning MTT players. The other players are standard 1/2ers.

Despite your reads you created a horrible spot for yourself. Massively bloated pots w AQ OOP are no fun. He is not going to fold an overpair or any draw with his SPR after flatting your 4-bet so you are essentially hoping you outflop him and spike an ace, or hoping he has AK and you can bluff him off it if you both whiff. Not a great plan.

OOP just flat his 3-bet and see a flop.

I havent looked at results.

I'm betting AQ for value, so why would I be bothered by it being a large pot? There isn't going to be much room for post flop play so it seems to offset position a bit IMO.

Obviously he won't fold an overpair, but only AA-QQ is problematic which he only shows up here with a very very small % of the time. With the odds, I don't mind getting it in vs a flush draw, straight draw, any pair less than JJ.

Why is a flat pre here better than a 4 bet when I know he is 3 betting me light more often than not? He even 5 bets me here with hands AQ dominates. Not to mention when I 4 bet pre and lead the flop this should get a lot of folds.

So were you just planning on shipping any flop and turning your value hand into a bluff? Regardless of his PF range, you are playing NLHE over 200bb deep. PF is not the time to build a pot with a hand like AQ

Yup. Committing myself on the flop is the general plan.

Earlier you mention all the hands I'm not getting him to fold, but what about all the hands he does fold? That gives me a lot of value I think you are overlooking.

Do you think each decision I made on each street was less EV than flatting a 3 bet pre? If I flat the 3 bet pre I c/f or c/c to float the flop, then c/f turn if I don't hit. The only value I can get here is when I make a hand, which is not going to be all that often.

ATC would suffice for your plan

AQ > ATC if it does all go in. I appreciate the discussion so far, hoping to hear from some others too

no, ducy

So like to clarify one of the more specific points I wanted to talk about was my bet of $155 on the flop vs a shove.

The player realizes that a bet of $155 commits me pretty much. Lets say the set of {A} call my shove on the flop, and the same {A} hands + some small set of {B} hands would be willing to shove over me when I lead for 155. At the time I thought both a shove and bet of $155 generate pretty close to the same FE, but there is a really small chance that he shoves over me with some {B} hands that are much worse than the {A} hands. At the time I thought that I would prefer these hands to stick around as to widen the range of hands I'd be getting it in against even if they only marginally increase my value vs the range.

I do not. While ATC is a bit of an exaggeration, I think hero makes the flop play a crapshoot here. And to state that V would 5-bet shove a range that is behind AQ is stating that V is maniacal.

Would you have 4-bet PF here?

Just read results. I guess he is maniacal.

Do you think he would have shoved overtop with the same hand on an A52 board?

Hey ArBar, based on your write-up and the way you wrote your HH, I'd guess you used to play online a bunch? (MTTs?) As such it may be difficult to get good responses to plays that are uncommon at live 1/2 in this forum (such as 4betting AQs for value).

Based on your reads, AQs may well be a 4bet hand and it all looks pretty good to this point. To continue repping a big hand, I'm a big fan of betting a size that looks like we are attempting to induce with JJ+ and giving ourselves some room to fold if he does shove. If he shoves we are behind his range pretty hardcore and should probably be able to fold relatively easily.

I think that line is believable and consistent. Off to read results.

meh cool hand. I guess this is based off a bunch of reads and past hands, but in a vacuum I'm not a fan of the flop call. Even his bluff-ish hands are going to have good equity (even 67o) and we can't really ever get it in here REALLY good.

So that would have been a bet smaller than $155? I feel like if you go too small here it looks weird. It's a wet flop, and given that I opened/4bet from UTG when I hold overpairs here I would bet ~155-AI. I don't think that anyone in this game would expect me to lead out with like 100-130 with AA/KK or even AsKs. So if I deviate from this sort of line it might make my hand more transparent : /

I think a c-bet between $150 and $160 seems right

.... Wtf, just read results, hope you sucked out.

I think you played the hand well.

If villain is as spewy post-flop as preflop, I may elect to have a wider 3b flatting range vs him. check/call to victory.

I think that betting 100-155 all allow us to shove the turn without it being awkward (which is ultimately our perceived goal with AA/AKs).

If that's the case, betting smaller saves us money if we indeed to intend to bet/fold the flop. It looking a little weird isn't really a bad thing because I think better $120 (which is what I think I'd settle on) is still a large bet and still looks like we could be inducing with AA.

Do you think villain could give you credit for attempting to induce?

I can't imagine any hands that would come over the top on the flop, that you don't want to fold. For example, if you open shove, you might push out some straight draws who think they don't have the right price, but in reality they do (since if they hit a pair its good). So a shove would be better vs those. Also, other small pairs are calling regardless of if you shove or bet. Therefore, shove> bet b/c u fold out straight draws. Otherwise, you played it well.

Yeah after thinking about this and the discussion here I think a shove would be way better. He shouldn't think that he has any fold equity from shoving IMO, but in reality he may think he does, so it's better to get rid of him having the illusion of fold equity.

in 4bet pots here its fine to make relatively small bets. possibly even smaller than the 4bet itself... like 105.... and make the same bet whether you're intending to bet/fold or bet/call. another thing about 4bet pots is that its perfectly fine to slow-play since its almost always possible to get all the money in on one or two streets.


to be perfectly honest it kind of sounds like you and villain are getting into some kind of pissing contest. so, maybe get a ruler and whip them out next time? or.... how about just playing higher? like 10/20+... I'm sure if I sat at a 1/2 game I'd also randomly call 4bets with shyt just for fun... so just play where the money means something.

4 betting with AQo is terrible IMO. I'd 4b with two randoms before 4 betting with that hand. AQ and KQ are NOT hands you should be 3 betting/4 betting light with.

Also if you have a player 3 betting you light who is directly IP to you, you should be changing tables.

What 1/2 games are you playing in ? I've never seen in proffitable to 4 bet and 5 bet out of postion with AK-AQ type hands. Maybe I'm just playing at the wrong casinos. Most the players I play against won't 3 bet unless they have a made hand.

No other tables, no other options to play. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it exists. The game definitely doesn't play like a normal $1/2, as I mentioned in the post about the caliber of some of the players.

4 betting AQs against a random person with no information is a lot different than the situation laid out in this thread... so it's not very helpful to come in and say never 4 bet AQs and ignore what is written.

If he calls 4bets with 5d9d then we should 4bet AQ all day lol

[edit]If we know*[/edit]

Yeah, 4b is good vs this particular villain. Most low stakes NLH games 3/4betting KQ/AQ is lighting money on fire.