2/5 8 handed 100 bb eff

UTG geriatric male open limps, folds to mp who calls, folds to H on button AdQh raise to 30

Blinds fold, UTG calls, MP folds

Flop (65) Qd8d2s
UTG check
H bet 40
UTG raise to 140

? Am I betting too large

I call

Turn 340 7c
UTG bet 200
H folds

Trivial fold holding the Ad ? I’m not sure what the bottom of my defending range is supposed to look like here. Is the flop fold or jam at the SPR I created ? This old man was snap betting every action in this hand

Flop size too large, it's ok if V continues with worse flush draws since we have the BDFD and want to make sure there's enough turn play to peel and hit. On this flop I'm betting $20. The "100 on top" raise is a pretty big tell and almost always a strong hand from players that dont know how to do math or care about what kind of odds they are giving. It's just a nice easy way for them to get more money in there, second only to someone minraising you. Regardless we arent folding so the call is fine whether you use my sizing or your own.

As played...

We've lost all leverage to draw to anything and have to hope V is jumping off a bridge with AJ which is just preposterous. Some ubernits will actually limp/flat with KK just to "make sure an ace doesnt flop". I know AA/QQ are less likely but in spots like this blockers are pretty irrelevant. He could also have 88 obviously, we beat nothing other than a suicidal AJ overplay which doenst line up since he only limped pre, or a flush draw which is even less likely since once again we know these types dont get fancy with the x/r holding draws if all they do is limp them pre. I'm letting this one go on the turn.

Ignoring bet sizes, the only way I'm continuing turn is if we turned our NFD or made 2pair+.

Flop size was fine.

With no reads, blocking most FD's, and an older guy l/c'ing from UTG I would just let it go to the c/r. 100 on top is always big value for the most part (with no other reads).

In these spots, I like to basically give villain a BB calling range. It's pretty representative of limp/call ranges in loose passive games.

Depending on Villian, you can sprinkle in some big pairs and AK as some people will limp/call just about their entire range.



Unfortunately, that's about where it stops theory wise. As everything goes off the rails after and is extremely Villain dependent.




Having the Ad, I would look to fold this turn without much other info on V. The flop c/r.......that's a tough one. While balance isn't all the important in these spots, we still have to be careful overfolding to flop c/r as even the worst players/table will pick up that we are bet/folding too much.


In theory, your flop bet is fine. This is a board we would actually check back a lot vs BB. So when we do bet, 3/4 is fine since our checking frequency is higher. Now, if you're always cbetting this board, you'll want to drop your flop bet down to about 1/3.




I think the biggest takeaway from this HH is how to construct your flop cbetting size. If we have reads/profile on Villain, go with that (example below). If we don't, then continue reading below the description example.


If you think he's an old man coffee type, you have two "optimal" options against these types:

- bet small. OMC folds inelastically. He will fold for 1/4 size as much as he will for 3/4. And when he has it, we lose less.

- check back and let him get comfortable. sometimes this will get you a small bet or two on turn/river.



If we have no reads/profile, then take a few sec and decide if the flop is one you plan on cbetting at a high frequency, or a medium/low frequency.

- if high frequency, stay near 1/3 pot
- if low or medium frequency, move to the 1/2 and 3/4 pot

I would bet less on flop and snap fold to the raise without reads that geriatric limping guy is going insane post flop with random hands. In my experience they are way more likely to have KK here than a bluff, and all of the sets would happily play this way.

Flop is fine. I might just fold to the check/raise vs. an unknown -- it all depends on the vibe I get from him. Limping w/ AA/KK is a "thing" for lots of players lately.

Turn fold is fine, of course.

Holy crap look at these replies. I wouldn't be able to fold here unless maaaaaybe the guy is some turbo nit. At 100 BBs? Yea no I think my stack is going in. Calling turn or just raising all-in. If I got coolered oh well.

What does V have?

Like let's pretend V is some formless blob, so we can just think about what a likely range is for a x/r here.

UTG limp, we raise BTN, UTG calls. HU to:

Qd8d2s with AdQh and bet 2/3 pot.

V raises big.

This is a great flop for AA/KK, esp. HU. But let's pretend that never happens.

Let's pretend he's doing this with all straight flush combos: JdTd/Jd9d/Td9d ... now what else? Obv. 6 combos. of 88/22.
Can't have AdX, so you think he limp/calls Kd2d UTG? What about 3d2d? You think people limp/call UTG and then x/r even KdJd?

Do you think someone limp/calling UTG will see this flop with 7d6d and decide "You know what, I think I'm now going to x/r and stack off 100bb if BTN doesn't fold" ... why do you think they limped? (Hint: Probably not for pot control if they are stacking off 76s here).

To call flop I would have to have reads that V is really bad going nuts with KQo or even JJ here, or takes very passive lines pre. and then bluffs a lot post and in both cases I'd be looking to call down bricks ... not call hoping for running diamonds or something.

Any sane range has AdQh with 14-23% equity.


tl;dr There are few draws, we block almost all of them and it would be inconsistent of V to be trying to semi-bluff anything here.

He's a geriatric who limped pre and is putting his stack in. Sounds like a turbo nit w/ AA/KK to me. Maybe even QQ/88, but doubtful.

A ton of set and weird two pairs like suited Q8, Q2 type.

Don’t like your sizing pre or flop. I’m more inclined to call flop check-raise if not for your sizing. As played, I’d just fold flop.

Some of these older guys overvalue top pair hands. To him, KQ/QJs might look like the nuts. If he hadn't played a hand in 2 hours, then folding is better; but age alone isn't a reason to fold here.

A few weeks ago, I actually saw a tight/passive geriatric reg c/r the flop with a flush draw, bet turn, and shove river after he missed his flush. Surprised the crap out of me. Maybe he only makes that play once a month.

Whenever I see them do this it's more often KQ/AQ and they raise smaller. My guess is that their assumption is that if they have AQ you probably have JJ or 99 so you can't call much, but if they have 88 you can have AQ and go broke (or their size is directly tied to hand strength, or even it's just what they've always done and they have no idea why).
When H bets 2/3 pot and they then x/r 3.5x I wouldn't put much AQ in that range.