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AQo on 2345 board. AQo on 2345 board.

04-24-2014 , 10:16 PM
1/2. First orbit at table, very few reads.

V is UTG. Mid 40's white guy, shades, some kind of poker hat on. Covers.

Hero is 30's white guy, about 4th hand at the table so whoop-de-doo. $200.

Hero is dealt AQ in the SB. V limps, a couple others limp, and since I have seen a few limp folds so far, I pop to $12. Only V calls. Heads up to the flop.

Flop ($30) 345

Hero leads $15 knowing I'm getting floated a lot, but planning on double barreling almost any turn card if called. V calls.

Turn ($60) 3452.

I was going to bet more but I make it $20. Probably should have been more but not sure if that changes the outcome. V says "I don't believe you" and pops to $50. Hero pukes and...
AQo on 2345 board. Quote
04-24-2014 , 10:50 PM
I think we call. It's $30 more to see a pot with $80 and you're holding a straight. Your play out of the small blind is a little deceptive since most villains will put you on 88-JJ here.

You can call and then check/call the river. You're most likely chopping.
AQo on 2345 board. Quote
04-24-2014 , 10:56 PM
Bet bigger both flop and turn.

As played, normally I would call but "I don't believe you" is pretty suspect. Holding the As is nice in that you know you aren't getting freerolled OTT, but also makes it a lot more likely he has 66.

I guess it's possible your flop sizing enticed him to stick around with AJs or something, but I still don't there are many Ax hands he can reasonably limp/call $15 UTG with and then call your bet on this flop. And there's no guarantee he raises turn with them if he does. I think he's pretty polarized to a 6 or air here, and that's an unusual thing to say with air.

Last edited by Troyble; 04-24-2014 at 11:02 PM.
AQo on 2345 board. Quote
04-24-2014 , 11:19 PM
I think a flop cbet here is not the best plan bc no one is folding a pp here ever and u r beating all A high anyways on the flop.. I think a ck/call line is prob better (ck raise doesnt accomplish much either unless v fold an op which we dont know)

As played on turn i think i ck call again u have limited upside to a chop and unlimited downside (66) but if u ck you can keep all bluffs and over pairs in his range as well..

Your small bet may have actually induced and now its hard to know where ur at in the hand...

As to his speech usually this is pretty skewed towards nuts in his eyes ( either A or 6 or even an op if hes bad) but you need to use your own judgement on what it means..
AQo on 2345 board. Quote
04-25-2014 , 12:05 AM
I might check - raise or check- jam the turn. Great spot for showing aggressiveness at the first orbit with second nuts. If he has a 6 just cooler.

As played call turn and river.
AQo on 2345 board. Quote
04-25-2014 , 12:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koss

V says "I don't believe you" and pops to $50.
Speech + Raise = Fold
AQo on 2345 board. Quote
04-26-2014 , 09:34 AM
So far we've got:

1) Don't c-bet. I would never c-bet this flop multiway, but heads up I think there's merit in double/triple barreling on boards like these, so that was my plan. Thoughts?

2) Check/Raise turn Not a bad idea to get a little more value out of his non-straight range. His bets would be fairly polarized to air and straights, so I'd be letting him draw for free if he has outs. Unfortunately it's a bit late for that now.

3) Fold Sixes are definitely in his range, and this obviously minimizes my losses against that portion of his range. His speech does seem to indicate strength, and he probably recognizes that there are a lot of A's in my range and he's popping me.

4) Call down The route I took. I figure he's strong. Not sure if he can be bluffing here, so I'm hoping to chop or maybe he's overplaying a set.

Hero calls.

River($110) 3452J

A complete blank. Hero checks. V bets $75. Hero?
AQo on 2345 board. Quote
04-26-2014 , 12:20 PM
After the speech and the raise, i'd say he's holding 6s7s89 for the nuts with the combo draw to the higher nuts and the fd. Oh wait, this isn't Omaha? Whatever, i'm still putting that hand in his range. I have a sneaking suspicion he does believe you and just has no ****s to give.

Yes, sometimes he has a set. Sometimes he has the A for a chop. But no where near enough to warrant a call on the turn.
AQo on 2345 board. Quote
04-26-2014 , 12:35 PM
Like a bigger preflop raise to @$18....at most 1/2 games ur raise size will create a waterfall effect of callers. Anyways...flop bet is fine but I like checking this turn... Betting here pretty much forces opponents off so many hands you're ahead of....checking will induce bluffs and get a lot of combos of hands to bet out. Believe there's more value/reward in exercising some pot control on this hand.

As for this particular circumstance, given his speech and raise size, I'm folding here. At best probably chopping.
AQo on 2345 board. Quote
04-26-2014 , 12:45 PM
That's kind of why I pulled back on the bet size, for pot control. I don't want to give spades/gutshots/2pair/sets a free look at the river. I figure most of the hands I'm ahead of won't have proper odds to chase but might anyways. And yes, I do feel my preflop raise was a little undersized. Not sure why I didn't go bigger. I think maybe I had seen some people limp/fold to smallish raises in the couple hands I've sat down and figured it might be big enough.
AQo on 2345 board. Quote
04-26-2014 , 12:45 PM
His range includes about a bajillion more combos of A-whatever than 6x. If it wasn't for the hat I might give him more credit.

I hope you played it right because that's how I would have played it. I just woulda bet turn straight up half pot.
AQo on 2345 board. Quote
04-26-2014 , 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbqDave
His range includes about a bajillion more combos of A-whatever than 6x. If it wasn't for the hat I might give him more credit.

I hope you played it right because that's how I would have played it. I just woulda bet turn straight up half pot.
After hero bets 20 on the turn, there is 80 in the pot. If villain raises and bets river, hero has to call the raise+the river bet to win 40 with a chop. So, essentially, to call raise+river hero has to put 105 in the pot to win 40. In order for this to be profitable, his range has to be HIIIIIIIIIIGHLY skewed towards Ax and sets. Which, after the cool guy with the shades and hat gives a super deceptive speech, I don't think it is.
AQo on 2345 board. Quote
04-26-2014 , 01:03 PM
B/f the turn. Check raise would be horrid.
AQo on 2345 board. Quote
04-26-2014 , 01:42 PM
In my experience the speech before the raise = I have the nuts, are you stupid enough to continue

Usually I am

good luck at the tables
AQo on 2345 board. Quote
04-26-2014 , 01:49 PM
Raise more pre. Flop looks OK. Bet more on turn.

On the turn, you are pretty much beat. This is the speech. Beware the speech.

Also this one is particularly transparent. He says he doesn't believe you... and so he raises. Well that doesn't make any sense at all, does it. He's not raising because he doesn't believe you. And doesn't believe what? You're not even representing that much strength. He's clearly acting and trying to mislead you, and I think he has a 6 here a ton.

I think you can call or fold the turn. I probably call pretty often given the price ($30 more in a large pot to a see what happens on river) with the plan to check/fold rivers.

Check/fold to the river bet.
AQo on 2345 board. Quote
04-27-2014 , 06:28 PM
Thanks for the help. I called and paid off 66. I should've stuck with my read, just couldn't bring myself to fold the idiot end of the straight there. The thinking that lead to my call was what SunChips said about there being way more Ax is his range than 6's. While I agree this is true, I think his speech plus confident aggression seemed like he was playing for value against Ax. While I'm not really afraid of the hats + shades trying to look like a pro type players, they tend to at least be above average. I figured he read me as having an Ax hand, and probably isn't the type to think an A or set is the nuts here. I'll get him next time. Thanks everyone.
AQo on 2345 board. Quote

      
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