Hero - $1050 - Stuck a little - I got kinda coolered early in the session. Lost $465 with AcKc - 3bet pre to $75 and bet called it off on a As9h5s board. He called $75 pre with 55 ($465 total) and flopped gin.

UTG - Fishy player who is taking strange lines. He is older and falling asleep at times and the dealer has to wake him up. He busted - rebought for $300 and worked it up to $1500 LOL. He likes to bet big, but seems to fold to pressure and resistance, and will show up with the strangest hands.

I get dealt AT on BTN. UTG goes $20 and folds around to me. I could fold here, but this player isn't the best and I think if I hit a decent flop or run out I can win some $$$.

$47
853

He leads $50
Clearly not the best flop for me, but I have a back door nut flush draw and 2 overs. Also he could be barreling with a hand like 66 - 99 - KQ - all sorts or random **** and I am gonna float.

$147
Turn J
He leads $100
Pretty good card for me so there is no way i'm folding now. I raise to $225 and he calls pretty quick. I am ranging him on an 8 with maybe a club or pocket pair with a club. This kind of player would almost always back raise a flush - but I block the nut flush so at best he has a set. I still think he has a 1 pair hand.

$597
River 2

Terrible card for me but he checks! I think I can bluff this and I like how I set up my turn bet. I could shove, but don't think I really need to. I go $400 and he goes well into the tank.

Thoughts?

i mean as played you def have to bluff river... but i dont think you really need to float the flop facing a PSB. our hand has some good interaction with the board but im definitely jut letting ti go when he PSB. the PSB feels more like an overpair that's terrified of a flush or an ace peeling off. just feels like we are making the game way more difficult than it needs to be.

I would rather 3bet pre than call. Actually I would never call since he has a lot more higher aces in his UTG range, even though he's a fishy player.

as played I would just fold the flop, his overbet is prob a PP protecting

I suppose I should say I haven't been involved in many hands in the past hour. It could make me look pretty nutted.

This isn't a good way to think about poker. It means you are manufacturing spots.

Kind of disagree. Taking advantage of our image is fine in llsnl. Just have to pick out spots. Feels like we are trying to bluff villain off an overpair though and not sure those are the spots we are looking for. I think our line is convincing though and I'm sure it works some % of time. I just think we are making the game hard on ourselves

He isn’t aware of this.

OTTH. As played, river is fine.

If your turn range for him still includes 8Xc, I think 3-b pre may be slightly better. You have a blocker and the BTN vs an inferior player. Appears he will call with worse.

Folding flop to >PSB. ½ PSB might be a float hoping to pickup equity OTT.

This assumption relies on villains being aware of our image. For most, this is not the case. For the rest, it's only a one hour sample so it's hardly a reliable indication.

Fold pre > 3bet pre > call pre. Fold flop too. AP, you have to bluff the river. I like a big sizing to maximise fold equity.

Fold pre. Fold flop.

that's fine, but CookbytheBook seemed to be making a general statement, not a hand specific statement. and i think using a nitty image can be quite profitable and not even high variance.

3 betting pre is worse than calling. Really not close.

Fold pre, fold flop, check muck river

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pretty surprised you´d fold pre to a guy who falls asleep from time to time.

+1 to fold flop.

Something is keeping him awake and if it's anything like most LLSNL tables, it's not the conversation.

hehe

still, I think described villain is prone to make massive mistakes. I don´t love the spot with ATo obv, but falling asleep would be a big enough factor for me to get into hands with this guy deep in position with a wider range.

Its fairly easy to end up with a nitty image in low stakes nl. Players call too much so winning players tend to have it when they bet. And sometimes you just dont have it for hours on end. There are good and bad ways to apply this.

The typical way I see it expressed on 2p2 is - I have a tight image, I expect to get more respect than usual. So now we play a hand more aggressively than usual, expecting villain to respect us and fold. But we throw out everything we know about poker to do so. now we are trying to get villain to fold strong hands cause we are repping the strongest hand?? We know this isn't how lsnl works, but here we are.

The way to apply the tight image is to bluff in spots where you aren't perceived to have any bluffs. These spots won't come up very often, but they will work at a very high success rate. Cause now you are back to playing poker and are using ranges and hand reading to find spots.

^This.

To add on to some others, I feel you got impatient and decided to roll with a marginal spot at best. Being card dead does this to all of us. Do remember when you get frustrated figure out what helps you play better when you get set over TPTK. Maybe it's a walk, a cigarette, a trip to the bar for one White Russian... Well at least those help me hehe... I walk away for 10 minute, analyze my own play and tell myself "keep with the correct ranges, and be mindful of hands like ATo, AJo, KJo, KTo, QTo, etc... These are the classic trouble hands many players struggle with. Notice they are all offsuit.

Also, I usually mutter... don't overplay JJ-99... Also, huge leak hands for most players.

Regardless if you were right or wrong in the hand as played, I do feel the lesson to note is to take a deep breath preflop and recognize we need to keep our discipline. Otherwise, we are no longer correctly playing our ranges.

They just love to ck-c riv with their bet bet hands so you better jam river with nuts/air.

I'd peel pre sometimes too. I'd fold flop most times - better floats to use.

How do you figure?

We have a fishy player, who has been showing up with strange hands. Do you think a fish is positionally aware enough to only open AK+ from UTG? Especially a guy who's half asleep? He's playing anything that looks pretty. I expect him to flat our 3bet pre and try to hit the flop.

How can 3betting to 60 pre be worse than calling? Here, hero is on the river, invested $170 in a hand and he has no idea where he is or what villain's range is.

How is that better than 3betting a wide fish pre to 60, in position, and narrowing down his continuation range?

this is way off. When I 3bet, I'm not "throwing out everything I know about poker", I'm actually utilizing everything I know. I'm not trying to get him to fold, I prefer he flats and tries to hit a flop like he did in the previous hand. This is how llsnl works, it doesn't work by trying to stack a fish with the nuts and only playing premium hands. Those are few and far between to depend on.

I didn't say anything about 3betting or only playing premiums..

Seems like too many fps brag posts by you. The river is an obvious bet, the flop is a fold tho.

The player might be fishy, but he's still an UTG raiser. I suspect he's got a tight range there.

I have the feeling you'll be winning this hand. Well played, pardner ..
He will put you on some hand related with the flop or turn. His TP could not be good here. If he's got TP he cannot call unless he's the biggest fish in the ocean.

A10 is almost the nut low hand to 3 bet, is decent starting point.

C betting flop and expecting folds from worse is non existent. Value betting is really tough. Bluffing and getting better hands to fold postflop is going to likely require 2 more streets of bluffing.

It doesn't flop well. His continuing range crushes us (if he is coherent). If he isn't then our fold equity postflop is minimal.

Just not a good hand or spot to 3 bet.

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So you're saying everyone who flats a 3bet preflop is never folding the flop?
I understand ATo doesn't flop well - I'm not 3betting it for value. I'm 3betting light and taking advantage of wide opening fish. This might be an advanced concept for some people and of course I understand I might need to double and possibly triple barrel the flop with ace high. That's why you need to be a good hand reader to take these lines.

If he was a solid player I would fold to an UTG raise without any thought but this guy sounds like he's wide enough to take advantage of him and take the initiative in the hand. I don't need a card advantage to win. I already have position, initiative, and good hand reading skills to know when to give up postflop.

Was late and half drunk. Meant c betting flops and expecting folds from better isn't happening.


If barreling and using fold equity as your main plan postflop. Then choose a hand with less RIO, and flops better.

K8s, k9s, 68xx....all better candidates

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