In recent months I have flopped a number of small flushes in a 2/3/5 $1000max game. By the river a flush has remained the best hand, with no additional cards hitting the flush suit. I am usually all in at or before the river. I am always behind to a better flopped flush. Typically, in these situations, there are 3 or 4 players on the flop and only 2 by the turn.

How do others play small flopped flushes? Slow play with a hesitation to build a small pot, and the resolve to fold to an all in? That seems too week. Or simply not play small suited cards, if you are not going to try to get max value? Or only try to flop a small flush if there will be just 2 players to the flop?

I am trying not to be results oriented, but I am having a hard time figuring out how to strike a balance when flopping a small flush.

Thank you. Your friendly, local fish.

There are a couple issues here:

1) If this has happened “a number” of times over the last month in live games, I have to assume that you are playing way too many suited hands that you should be folding. How are you playing 5d6d under the gun, or Ks2s from the SB to a raise? Because these should be folds, but if you’re calling with them, that’s part of your problem…

2) You should play monotone flops *very slow*. Tiny C-bets when you’re in position, check-calling when you’re out of position. This is true whether you’ve flopped a nut flush or a small flush or a set—you do not want to bloat these pots. (EG: you call a button raise with JsTs and the flop comes 2s6s9s. You should just check-call here almost every time.)

3) The golden rule of Live Low-Stakes Poker is “never go broke in a limped pot.” If 5 guys limp and you complete in the Big Blind with Ts4s and the Flop comes Ks9s7s and one of the limpers goes all-in by the River, you just need to understand that your hand is never going to be good. (It’s one of the big reasons you should have just folded a garbage hand like T4s pre-flop even with the “pot odds”: the only way it’s going to be involved in a big hand is if it’s second best.)

I hope this helps. Sometimes there are just coolers and there’s nothing you can do if you 3-bet KsQs preflop and a guy check-raises all-in on a 8s7s2s flop with the nuts. But there are certainly steps you can take to minimize these situations.

Agree with what you said. Thanks. You just made a fish better.

It seems like you are going through some negative variance. Most of the time that you make any flush, it should be the best hand. If you have been over-flushed many times over a short period, it's probably bad luck that will even out over serious volume.

That said, as the above user pointed out, there are definitely ways to minimize your losses in these spots, and, to some extent, avoid them. Definitely be super cautious in limped pots in loose-passive games. Your oponents will limp in with any suited combination, so if you have a hand like 54s you need to be cautious. When villain can have hands like J6s and Q3s, there are so many more combinations of hands that beat you. It's a completely different scenario than if villain raises from EP and you defend big blind in a heads up pot.

Players are also usually going to be very wary of a flush in a multi-way pot (perhaps even overly so) - it's easy to see when the draw completes, and so it's obvious to even less experienced players. When you see players putting a ton of money in on a flush board, they are usually just going to have a flush, unless you have a read that they are exceptionally aggressive or exceptionally obtuse.

As an aside, these are not limped pot situations. There has always been a raise with calls.

While it sounds like variance, I have to ask you some questions. Which small flushes? T9s from late, or J3s from early/middle? Was it in the blinds? Who was in the pot and for what kind of action? How well do you know the players that had the better flush? When in position, do you ever check back for pot control?

All these details don't just matter, they are all important.

Post some hands, you are getting some decent feedback based on generalities ... but even one or two hands might show something obvious as the main problem.


Apart from the other things people have said, these two lines are where I'd start:

Do you check or call with flushes? Do you remember having x/c a bluff with a flush? Do you ever fold a flush?

When you win with flushes is it because people fold?

Agree with alot that has already been said. Be VERY selective about entering pots voluntarily with low suited cards. Maybe some suited connectors 65+ vs smallish raise or limped if in cutoff or button. If flopping a flush, I play similarly to flopping bottom two pair. I typically play it VERY aggressively on the flop regardless of position, betting close to pot. If called, out of position (without reads) I will generally go into check-call or check-fold mode depending on the runout. In position, again run-out dependent, but I will often use a block-size bet on the turn and check back most rivers. Key thing, though, is that small suited cards are often such that you can win a small pot or lose a big pot.

I generally play 1-2 or 1-3, though, so things could play differently at 2-3-5.

Interesting topic and I hope you don't mind me posting a hand I played last night and curious if I was unlucky or did I play it poorly.

2/3 NL with $300 max buy in.

My stack is $1200 and villain is $550. He's the best player at the table and has been active in a lot of hands and plays well post flop. Not sure if he's just running hot but he's creative. Saw him shove on the turn when his flush draw picked up a gutshot. He was called and he made his flush on the river.

I'm in the big blind with 8c9c. 2 limps plus SB completes.

Flop comes

5c6c10c. Pot is like $20.

SB checks I bet $15. Fold, villain raises to $60. SB folds. I call.

Turn is 2d. I check. He bets $100. I shoved. He lets out a groan and says ugh. The only "tell" he's given off at the table. He is legitimately stressing about his decision. He finally says "please be good" and calls. And tables Jc7c to my dismay.

Where did I go wrong? How would you have played it better? What total mistakes did I make?

I felt like I couldn't fold against him. But I also know he's capable of playing this hand like this with Ac5d or whatever.

This looks like a good example of overplaying a small flopped flush, though OP did mention that all of his examples were from raised pots.

This is obviously a cooler for you - there is no chance you are not going to lose a significant amount of money with 89cc in the big blind on this board against a better flush. But once there is a big bet and a big raise on the flop, and the raiser double barrels, 89cc is basically a bluff catcher on this board. If you have a read that villain is capable of pulling this move with the ace of clubs, call the turn and let him bluff the river.

In this exact scenario, if you call turn, villain likely value bets river small, and you will lose a smaller pot. Some passive villains might even check back a hand like J7cc on the river.

You can't really stack off for 185 big blinds in a limped pot with this hand and expect to win very often against a competent opponent. There are so few combinations of worse flushes (34cc and 74cc only, and both of those might just fold pre) and so many combinations of better ones.

Another thing to consider is there probably aren't as many combinations of offsuit Ac hands in your opponent's range as you think. If villain is really the best player at the table, he is folding his offsuit ace-rag hands and raising his big offsuit aces.

See below

Just call turn. At 25 SPR I don't think you can shove without the nuts. People get worked up about wanting to charge the naked Ad here but I don't think you get called by much worse. His flop raise was a chunky 4x of a 3/4 pot bet.

Ive overplayed some hands recently too and it's been a great reminder to me that playing poker like bingo only goes so far and you need to learn the right spots to pick up small and medium sized pots with bluffs.


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You were going to lose money here unless you caught your 7c but should not have gotten all in. Villain looks to be the sort that plays any two suited. Low flushes don't play well against them because your blocking the low flushes and villain is thus likely to have a face card/low card type hand. You need to recognize those guys and realize you don't want to commit with a low flush.

After this guy raised the flop you should have just been check/calling turn. Unless you know villain is super reckless there are more actual flushes then draws/bluffs villain could have and you don't beat many of the flushes. Depending on what you know about villain and what he bets you might even find a fold on the river but it would take a strong read.

So first off, don't bet flop ... you have "any2" in the BB (without the top 5% of hands). So you have way more offsuit hands than suited, and you just "don't" have things like TT or AKs. You aren't getting folds from better, or Ac/Kc, and you can't bet three streets. You are also crushing almost everything that folds to your flop bet, and the few hands that are in a bad spot like JcT are doing great vs. your hand.


Position is somewhat important, was he the original limper or limp behind?

Also going to assume he doesn't limp all his hands pre. ... this is key because stuff like Ac4c is a hand lots of people limp (can flop huge with nut flush, or nut flush draw and overcard), dito. Kc2c but A5o is not a hand people will limp. Dito. "good hands" like ATo/AJo/JcJ+.

Also on a monotone flop in a limped pot people are much less likely to raise bare Ac, maybe more likely to raise 66/55 (shouldn't have TT, but that too) but that's only 6 combos (can easily have double the combos. of A/K high flushes).

Also note that if he has a flush all of them have you beat, so you have one out (assuming he doesn't spew raise 4c3c).

I think flop is closer to a fold than you'd think vs. the $60 raise. You can literally have anything to start the hand.

I understand the desire to raise turn, as Ac and sets probably just calls it off and you are in front but I doubt you are in front enough.


Would also be suspicious of your assumption that's he's the best player at the table, given he's limping Jc7c. We all get bored, or do bad/random things sometimes ... but even on the BTN this entire line is more gamble than skill, from him.

So, let me get this straight. You're committing your stack OOP against "the best player at the table" (of course, best is a relative statement and clearly doesn't mean good), with a non-nutted hand?

To start, I think we should consider what makes someone the best player. In my book, the best player plays hands that can make a very strong connection to the board. Plays in position, is able to range his opponents' hands correctly and can predict what they will do when faced with various actions. From your description, this villain is a mid-level LAG that is running well.

As to playing the hand, I pretty much agree with the other comments.

I can't even consider folding a flush to a tricky aggressive opponent like this on the flop. Turn maybe. Again he plays draws very aggressively. I agree with the consensus that my turn shove was bad. I think he raises this flop with top pair, Ac, a set etc.

Villain was the 2nd limper.

I don't understand your not betting the flop comment. Aren't I looking to get action from what is almost always the best hand? Charges draws. Get calls from 10X. I'm looking to build a pot against an aggressive opponent. Yes I butchered the hand and it's why I posted it. But I struggle to see how betting my flush was a mistake. I also see many opponents that play predictably by betting medium strong hands (TP/TK) and slow play strong hands like a flopped flush. As such I like to bet my strong hands as well as some draws. Maybe this isn't optimal.

Opponent was tricky and aggressive making him a tough read. I'm pretty sure he was stealing late in hands against tight players and played position well. He would bet big with the nuts and with draws or bluffs. He would put you in tough spots. First time playing with him though. He also was good enough to reluctantly call the turn. Where I think a bad player insta-calls. He knew there was a good chance he wasn't good but that's a tough fold.

http://www.thinkingpoker.net/article...trength-poker/

Assuming nobody is playing 73s, and given your cards, you have the 4th worst flush on the flop. Assuming villain plays non-premium AKQ suited hands for a limp, there are ~12 better flushes.

Villain should never get to the flop with ATo, so it doesn't really matter what he'd theoretically do if he had that hand. And if he did decide to limp it then raising flop is terrible.

Villain limping, assuming he doesn't limp a huge portion of his range, just doesn't have as much Acxo as you think. Like ATo+ is almost always a raise, AJo+ even more so. A9o/A8o are mediocre but maybe fine in late position. A7o/A6o/A5o is just trash.

Dito. JJ+ with a club, villain should never have it after he over limps.

1. monotone flops happen ~5% of the time, if you never have a flush when you check...

2. It doesn't matter how far in front you are of the large portion of everyone's range that just auto folds the flop, what matters is how you are doing vs. the calling or raising parts of their range.

3. If someone has the Ac you aren't really "charging" them to draw. If you get one caller and you 150% pot overbet the turn, it costs them $90 to see a river and then they can bet however much of the remaining $1,100 they have.

4. This isn't the river, there is a chance for at least three bets to go in. If two bricks come out and you've bet flop and turn and got called are you going to bet the river? (hint: no) ... So if you aren't betting three streets, you are crushing everything that folds, you are OOP and you have no visibility why are you betting flop?

5. Betting allows people to raise, so we now go from wanting to put two bets in vs. maybe having to put four bets in.

6. People mostly aren't calling Tx here without a club, and even if they are bad enough to do it they'll only do it once. And, again, people have JTo/T9o way more than AT when they limp ... so it's not like they can think "oh, I have top pair top kicker, so I have to call even though it sucks".

7. People much more likely to bluff or thin value bet, if you check. Like 65 can just fold flop when you bet out 3/4 pot, but might have put money in if you check.

This is only a good call if people are severely overplaying flushes and/or bare Ac/Kc draws. Given your cards he had the next best flush (assuming he doesn't play J2s) ... so it's impossible for you to have "butchered the hand" but villain to have "made a good/tough call".

Thank you for the thoughtful reply. In my games 95% of the players I face are calling the flop bet with top pair and probably any club above a 10 on this flop. 88 might call. I'm playing with a lot of loose bad players. Many players I face would call the turn with top pair as well unless the turn is another club. You make some good points but you must play in tougher games than I do. Does that help explain why I bet the flop?

If you think the guys who wander over from the baccarat tables with a beer in their hand and sit down with $140 are folding this flop with a 10 in their hand, well, you would be wrong.

Here's 2 real hands from tonight just to illustrate.

Young kid raises with 1010 no diamond. Flop comes all rags diamonds. He bet into a guy who just called him on all 3 streets including a river shove. The guy calling had Ad4d. Another hand I flopped top set of 10's on an all club flop. I get it all in with a kid with JJ no club on the flop. So yeah, people in my games aren't folding worse hands just because the flop is monotone. I need to vent so I'll mention that he caught his river Jc.

I'm not really sure what more we can say. You came in asking why you keep losing big pots on monotone flops, we keep telling you "it's because you're playing them incorrectly, you should be playing them differently," and you keep replying with "No, I actually AM playing them correctly."