Both are against same V at 1/2 who seems pretty loose passive, limps a lot pre and seem all in all the general loose passive 1/2 player. He is an 40-50 folding white guy who has been friendly and chatting with hero.
Hero's image is young 20 year old white guy who has been raising a lot pre so some may think he is LAGish but really just running well and only really shown down good hands.
Hand 1 - V has about 170 and hero has 400 and covers
UTG opens to 10, UTG+1 calls and villain in CO makes it 25. Haven't seem him raise yet and defiantly not 3bet so my mind jumped to the usually KK+ range for when these type of players 3bet however hero looks down at QQ on the BTN and with only a few hours of reads can't fold QQ here IP so i call and UTG and UTG+1 call
river 4 (260) villain checks and has around 100 back
not sure is i should bet here. think AA and KK bet river but some of these passive players get scared going for all 3 streets and not sure what other hands he has in his 3bet range that I can get value from. Also the 4 pairing should make him more likely to bet KK or AA because he beats 2 pairs now but may be putting me on a 4 for some reason and getting scared.
Hero checked back expecting to win and villain showed 98 (really surprised to see him 3bet that) that turned 2 pair and hero counterfeited on the river.
Hand 2:
3 limps in front of hero including V and hero makes it 15 with AKo and only villain calls.
Flop (30) AT4 rainbow
hero bets 20 and villain calls
Turn (70) 3 completing rainbow and villain leads for 25 and hero calls. Think this is an attempt at cheep showdown a lot but always get afraid of aggression from these passive type players.
river (120) is a 4 pairing the board and villain bets 35 and hero snaps. Villain shows A5o and hero scooped the pot.
Think i can get a raise in on either the turn or river just not sure what spot is best as I'm still getting used to live poker.
Note: after typing these hands out its even more obviously how small these hands are compared to the size of the pot and makes me think I missed even more value. following the size of the pot in my head is defiantly something i need to work on in adjusting to live.
I would have put villain all-in on the river in hand 1.
In hand 2, calling is fine if you think he'll fire again on the river. I would raise the turn otherwise and also with all of my less-than-top-pair range unless he's really stationy. On the river, I think I would make a small raise for value.
yes you missed value. Hand 1 was a bigger mistake IMO. You should always be shoving river. Hand 2 is a bit odd but I expect to have the best hand very often. Depending on stack sizes I might shove. These are obvious blocker bets trying to freeze the action.
yea i think hand one is worst especially since he had less that 1/2 pot behind and defiantly think i can at least get a small raise in somewhere.
However my real problem with hand one is I'm not sure what in his 3betting range is calling. Can you guys elaborate on what you expect to get called by here? obviously he was probably calling with his exact hand but impossible to put him on that.
and i usually don't post results but figured that the result of hand 1 may give people bit of a better idea on the villains play style for hand 2
My vote is going to be for shove river hand 1, raise to like 80-110 hand two
Hes making weakish blocking bets w weakish hands, the only time you'll really need to watch out for him having a monster is when he's check raising or leading big imo. Super tell if this is accurate, I would try and match it up in 3 or 4 hands and then... He's probably going to have a tough time against you.
Don't post results next time you get biased advice.
Hand 1: I'm raising flop all-in. His bet size makes no sense for a value hand and he only has $110 left (shoving for $145). If he's got AA-KK so be it, but 85 BB's deep with 3rd nut overpair I don't really care.
Hand 2: I don't know how deep you are, but I'm raising turn to $75 to set up a river shove.
Hand 1 is a ton of missed value, even if you woulda got it in behind on the flop or turn. On the river when he only has $100 left and the lowest card pairs and he checks, that's definitely your green light to put him all in.
Hand 2 more depends upon your reason for flatting on the turn. If your flatting the turn to be in position and getting value on the river then I'm all for it. I can't emphasize this enough when I say your run out was a dream situation. AT4r, which has an A and that important somewhat high card the T. When the river brings another 4 to pair the board anyone (including villain in this exact hand) is thinking they're just chopping with another A or getting value, because in their mind you both will be playing AA44T if you do have an A. This is why you need to be raising this river for fat value.
I think you played the hands well considering your reads on players but imho the reads on players were not accurate which then makes ranging difficult.
In addition to the difficulty of a read, they also tend to put you on the hand that they would play that way. So when a passive gets raised, he often thinks you have the type of hand he would raise with. I.e. when they get aggy they usually have you, but when you get aggy they start thinking they should fold.
I.e. they are passive because they are trying their best to play in such a way that they don't give up value.
So it's a bit like getting a dog to swallow a pill; you need to wrap it in some meat.
I guess my general thought is be aggy if your hand is vulnerable, rather than the thin value type of aggy. So in the first hand, I would never flat with QQ; that's the point I would look to get value. And then the pot is bigger and you get more chips in afterwards. In the second, when he tries to block the turn, it would indicate that I need to worry a bit about my nut type hand, and I would raise there.
So I guess my thinking is that it's about preserving value, more than extracting it.
Last edited by BadlyBeaten; 09-26-2015 at 03:28 AM.
I think you played the hands well considering your reads on players but imho the reads on players were not accurate which then makes ranging difficult.
yea i only had a little over an hour or two of time at this table so my reads were not great. If i play this guy again obv i will have a better idea how to handle it
